How important is using the correct terminolgy.

trapezeartist said:
Actually I think port, starboard, bow and stern are the most redundant terms. Left, right, front and back are perfectly unambiguous.

On the other hand, I can't think of any way of replacing halyard or sheet with anything less than a sentence. So terms like that are essential t ogood communication.

My wife is determined to be as non-nautical as possible, so when she is on board the boat consists of a living room, a kitchen, a bathroom, a front bedroom, a back bedroom and (my favourite) a patio.
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Port and starboard unambiguously refer to fixed sides of the boat; they are NOT synonymous with left and right. Left and right depend on which way you're looking - and if you don't believe me, try working on a stage where it can be extremely confusing depending whether you're on the stage or looking at it! Stage people resolve the ambiguity by referring to "stage right" or "stage left" - we resolve it by referring to "Port" and "Starboard".

I happen to be amongst the small minority for whom distinguishing "Left" and "Right" isn't a built-in reflex (my brother will confirm this!). I actually have to think which is which (no, I don't need "l" and "r" on my shoes). So I respond far better to "Port" and Starboard", which are linked to fixed sides of the boat, than to Left and Right, which change if you're facing in a different direction.
 
Can you imagine a squre rigger thundering down the roaring forties with onlt breif glimse of the horn and the mate screams in your ear "let that whatsit go on the left side ,I am going back to havea sh!T"
 
prv said:
I'm sure it depends on the type of vessel. When you have fifty pins along the side of the ship, you're going to be a lot slower counting to number thirtyseven than I am looking for the one that has a big tackle and a block on deck (I've arbitrarily decided that we're dropping the upper topsail yard in a hurry due to a sudden squall). You don't need to follow the whole run of the line, in most cases you can't as they go up through the tops in bunches, but in each case there is something about the lower end of the line that identifies it.

But different ships, different long splices. On a big gaffer I'd be expecting to look for the right pin.

Pete
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In an ideal world you'd use both your eyes and your knowledge of where to go when selecting the correct rope. My point is that if you know the vessel you should be able to find the right line blindfold and the only way to do that is to ensure all lines always get made off to the correct place irrespective of whether its a big gaffer or a five masted bark.
 
Woodlouse said:
In an ideal world you'd use both your eyes and your knowledge of where to go when selecting the correct rope. My point is that if you know the vessel you should be able to find the right line blindfold and the only way to do that is to ensure all lines always get made off to the correct place irrespective of whether its a big gaffer or a five masted bark.
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The trouble is you are on a boat which most people will never sail. They probably won't know what a pin is never mind where it goes to. An experienced crew used to sailing on this type of boat I can understand but to most people you might as well be speaking a foreign language, backwards and missing out every alternate letter.
Horses for courses.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
I happen to be amongst the small minority for whom distinguishing "Left" and "Right" isn't a built-in reflex (my brother will confirm this!). I actually have to think which is which (no, I don't need "l" and "r" on my shoes). So I respond far better to "Port" and Starboard", which are linked to fixed sides of the boat, than to Left and Right, which change if you're facing in a different direction.
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I don't think it is that unusual, a minority of us but not that rare. I had the "luck" to slightly injure by right hand so I know which it is. Growing up not knowing right from left wasn't something you would admit, soon it will no doubt be a regonized condition. I agree somehow Port and Starboard are easier to get.
 
OR4751 said:
All our sheets/halyards have a different and distinctive colour.
They're always referred to by their colour.
Works for us and IMO leaves no room for error.
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Sandyman said:
No room for error as long as that person is sailing on YOUR boat. I would suggest you are doing that person a disservice.
Yes it works for you but what happens when that chap/chapess goes on someone else's yacht and finds them self like a fish out of water, because the skipper uses different coloured sheets & halyards to yours ?
Far better for him to know what sheet/halyard is what and what it does.
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We sail as a family on our own boat.
We never take on crew - we don't crew for others.
We've been doing this for over a decade, sometimes just one word or a look is enough.

When we do sail with 'outsiders' on the boat, they are guests - not crew.
Sit back - enjoy the ride - don't spill your drink.
 
glashen said:
Fair POV, I tend to agree that Port and Starboard are clearer and since they matter in the ColRegs are a good idea to use on boats from the outset, terms for bits of the boat fair enough within reason (I didn't know what a gammon iron was, not surprising really I don't have bowsprit). As far as ropes go, as other have said pull the blue one is a lot clearer than "swig the fore halyard". Well it is to me. It isn't the terminology that is important surely, it is being clear as to your meaning that matters, but I also agree it can be fun using the right language.

So the next time I have a banyan and I am athwartships and avast a saltie, my baggywrinkles in my fine fettle and my dunnage stowed I'll drop my killick before we sink the gash fanny from a whelkie to belay any jetsam whilst watching the horizon for an Ox-eye.
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I thought a Gammon Iorn must be a frying pan:)
 
Nostrodamus said:
The trouble is you are on a boat which most people will never sail. They probably won't know what a pin is never mind where it goes to. An experienced crew used to sailing on this type of boat I can understand but to most people you might as well be speaking a foreign language, backwards and missing out every alternate letter.
Horses for courses.
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The more inexperienced the crew the more important it is to drill them in to knowing that ropes go back exactly where you found them. However under those circumstances you will need, when able, to double check you actually have the bit of string you were aiming for.
 
Conversation often held on boats with me: can you tighten the "jib halyard?, the what? the blue rope..
Its soon turns into: can you pull the jib halyard?, The blue rope? yup?

Traditional words have there place its a national language almost international... If we all branch out into local speaks what happens when the english start dealing with the scots?

English "I say chap can you pull that down ****er?"
Educated northern britain "What the **** are you saying pull the ****ing pole down haul?"

Woodlouse said:
The more inexperienced the crew the more important it is to drill them in to knowing that ropes go back exactly where you found them. However under those circumstances you will need, when able, to double check you actually have the bit of string you were aiming for.
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Hmmm can I reword that a little, its important that people are taught WHY a rope goes to a certain place, a certain way. Then they can understand the principle and reasoning and can really learn what they are doing?


Tony Cross said:
Sailing is like sex? Is that because it costs you a lot of money to do it, you rarely do it properly, and yet you can't help coming back for more?
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Nostrodamus said:
No,
Because it can get wet and messy, you need a good wipe down afterwards and you have to be careful the navigation doesn't go wrong and you end up in the muddy stuff.
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Or is it because the wise ones know its better to rent them than buy them?
 
glashen said:
I've always taken the view that the important thing is to be understood, I can understand that language can exclude the uninformed, it can also include by making us feel we are part of some special group with our own special words. I do dislike it when nautical language is used to convey some sort of spurious superiority because someone has used the wrong word. It can of course be useful for clarity assuming everyone in the conversation does know what the terms mean.

Best story I heard about nautical language, was a skipper not good at remembering the right term for each sheet / rope / halyard getting heated and shouting pull the f****** rope in, no not that f****** rope, that f****** rope!

Suppose the message got through in the end.
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Beating up the Solent and there's a tanker anchored in Thorness Bay. Get past it, tack and say to the missus, who's helming, 'leave it to port' then, 'go to the right of it' then 'point at the Spinnaker Tower'.
Yet to find the right terminology I'm afraid.
 
Nostrodamus said:
If you tell people on a boat starboard is always on the right looking forward isn't it as easy to say the right will always be on the right looking forward.?
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Agreed. The motor industry has always managed to understand which side of the car is right and which is left, without getting into any silly debate about whether the car isgoing forwards or backwards. Nearly every engineering drawing includes the note "RH as drawn. LH sym opp."

On the other hand, when I was crashing cars for a living, the crash lab always referred to port and starboard.
 
Camelia said:
Like most engineers I have allsorts of technical words I use and list some examples below:

Thingi, thingibob, whatsyacallit, dooberry and my all time favorite twaddle (as taught by a crusty Scots chemical engineer at ICI Mond on Teeside).
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Nothing wrong with twaddle, it's a measure of specific gravity that I've used when mixing glazes ..
 
trapezeartist said:
Agreed. The motor industry has always managed to understand which side of the car is right and which is left, without getting into any silly debate about whether the car isgoing forwards or backwards. .
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So why do they refer to "Near Side" and "Offside"?
 
It's a big industry. There will always be pedants.
However they are wrong. Nearside in a left-drive country is different from nearside in a right-drive country. So are you referring to the specific side of the the vehicle, or the side nearest the side of the road?

Ambiguity is very ambiguous.
 
Never had much of a problem on board. We use whatever we feel like; berth bed and bunk change places as we see fit. Equally left and port, bow and front. What does annoy us both are the pedants who cannot let go of 'proper' usage and look at us as if we've grown a second head when we use non nautical terms like toilet. That's what irritates me beyond measure. Ahh life's too short for this stuff......
 
Now that M/N & RN are so 'mega high teq.' with e this & e that. We only have the yachtsman & traditional yachtsman to keep these terms alive.....
 
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