How important is it to have a chart plotter at the wheel pedestal?

Refueler said:
Dunno about others - but as a professionally trained Navigator - I took immense satisfaction out of making landfall at desired point BEFORE SatNav ..... the job was interesting then.
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As an untrained navigator I took immense satisfaction in having GPS allow me to decide which of the entrances to Cherbourg I was going for instead of taking immense satisfaction in finding the Cotentin peninsular :)
 
LadyInBed said:
Link your CP to your Autopilot and you can have just that, but without an anoying electronic voice ;)
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Question : When I last looked at linking Auto to Chart Plotter - there was a limitation that course change would not be made without manual acceptance of the 'order' .......... is that still the case ? It was a safety 'feature' ... ??
 
Refueler said:
course change would not be made without manual acceptance of the 'order'
is that still the case ? It was a safety 'feature' ... ??
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If it is part of a route then Yes, you have to accept the course change, but if it is straight A to B it will keep heading for B whatever the direction!
Therefore, using it to do a X Channel it will try to do a straight line, not the sinusoidal path that you would normally do in a sailboat allowing for E and W current flow.
one application that I find very useful is that, at short notice, you can drop a WP on the CP, press the TRACK on the AH and the boat will, like a good dog, turn and aim at the WP, giving you both hands to sort out sails and trim. Once the boat is going in the new direction you can of course go back to AUTO or SBY and steer yourself.
 
I would imagine it depends on your particular plotter. And auto pilot.
The capability certainly exists for an auto pilot to follow a pre determined route.
The capability exist for a route to be automatically plotted.
presumably using both features, or a single combined feature is possible if your plotter has the capability
Additionally
The capability to allow for set and drift exists.
Depends how you set it up. Some will alter at predetermined points. Some may require the alteration be accepted some may not. An audible alarm may or may not sound.

Which choice or whether or not it’s a good idea. Are other questions.
 
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Uricanejack said:
I would imagine it depends on your particular plotter. And auto pilot.
The capability certainly exists for an auto pilot to follow a pre determined route.
The capability exist for a route to be automatically plotted.
presumably using both features, or a single combined feature is possible if your plotter has the capability
Additionally
The capability to allow for set and drift exists.
Depends how you set it up. Some will alter at predetermined points. Some may require the alteration be accepted some may not. An audible alarm may or may not sound.

Which choice or whether or not it’s a good idea. Are other questions.
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I would like to know if anyone actually has a Plotter / Pilot combo that does alter course along a route without alarm and you having to accept the alteration ...

I've tried to find any combo and nothings come up.

I know from my RC flying etc. that of course its possible to create an autonomous operating unit ... we have FPV and Auto Flight gear that will fly a prescribed flight route ... my DJI Drone can be set on a route to overfly and return to home etc. With literally unlimited number of waypoints ... it will not only fly to a GPS co-ordinate and then change to next - but it can stop at it .. rise or descend ... take picture or video .... etc. The whole can be input before take off and then once initiated - you can put controller down and just let it do its thing.
 
We. Have a plotter at the chart table and use an I pad with avionics mounted under the spray hood. Would like to link them but I have no idea how? Trouble with I pad is keeping it charged for long periods. Even if it’s plugged in it drains faster than I can charge it.
 
Refueler said:
I would like to know if anyone actually has a Plotter / Pilot combo that does alter course along a route without alarm and you having to accept the alteration ...

I've tried to find any combo and nothings come up.

I know from my RC flying etc. that of course its possible to create an autonomous operating unit ... we have FPV and Auto Flight gear that will fly a prescribed flight route ... my DJI Drone can be set on a route to overfly and return to home etc. With literally unlimited number of waypoints ... it will not only fly to a GPS co-ordinate and then change to next - but it can stop at it .. rise or descend ... take picture or video .... etc. The whole can be input before take off and then once initiated - you can put controller down and just let it do its thing.
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My old raymarine will not alter course without manual intervention. I would imagine that all autopilots following a track are like this.

Two reasons are ...

When under sail you wouldn't want the boat to automatically tack without some kind of acceptance from the crew that they are ready - a pan of boiling pasta over your legs might be the result.

When motoring, the autopilot doesn't have enough sensors to know what other vessels are around you, it would be pretty bad if you were passing another yacht, and the autopilot decided to change course and ram it, just because it happened to correspond to a waypoint with a course change.

From an autonomous driving perspective (something I work with relating to cars) the person in charge (human) has a far better set of sensors and better perception of the immediate environment than any currect piece of marine electronics - they are also ultimately responsible for the vehicle. The human operator needs to be "in the loop" for any decision to change direction IMO. Anything else is opening the equipment supplier up to legal problems in the event of an accident.

With the current state of marine electronics and available sensors for cruising yachts, keeping a human in the loop is, I think, essential.

The other point is that, even under autopilot you are required to constantly keep a lookout. In my somewhat crowded cruising ground, the proliferation of autopilots and plotters means that most leisure yachts follow almost exactly the same course on certain routes, I often have to change autopilot course to avoid boats coming in the opposite direction.
 
Denek said:
We. Have a plotter at the chart table and use an I pad with avionics mounted under the spray hood. Would like to link them but I have no idea how? Trouble with I pad is keeping it charged for long periods. Even if it’s plugged in it drains faster than I can charge it.
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The Mini / C sockets used on tablets are not designed to take the amps required to charge and run all the lovely utils / apps we like to play with ... switch OFF WiFi .. BT ... SIM ... GPS and you will find that the rate now starts to get near to that required ..... but then of course what do you do when its not rec'g GPS !!
 
Baggywrinkle said:
My old raymarine will not alter course without manual intervention. I would imagine that all autopilots following a track are like this.

Two reasons are ...

When under sail you wouldn't want the boat to automatically tack without some kind of acceptance from the crew that they are ready - a pan of boiling pasta over your legs might be the result.

When motoring, the autopilot doesn't have enough sensors to know what other vessels are around you, it would be pretty bad if you were passing another yacht, and the autopilot decided to change course and ram it, just because it happened to correspond to a waypoint with a course change.

From an autonomous driving perspective (something I work with relating to cars) the person in charge (human) has a far better set of sensors and better perception of the immediate environment than any currect piece of marine electronics - they are also ultimately responsible for the vehicle. The human operator needs to be "in the loop" for any decision to change direction IMO. Anything else is opening the equipment supplier up to legal problems in the event of an accident.

With the current state of marine electronics and available sensors for cruising yachts, keeping a human in the loop is, I think, essential.

The other point is that, even under autopilot you are required to constantly keep a lookout. In my somewhat crowded cruising ground, the proliferation of autopilots and plotters means that most leisure yachts follow almost exactly the same course on certain routes, I often have to change autopilot course to avoid boats coming in the opposite direction.
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This is the same basis as was before when I spoke to manufacturers when I lived in UK ... Raymarine was just down the road from where I lived etc.
They maintained safety was paramount and that autonomous course change was not an option. Its been quite a while since then and I am not up on the latest decision on this as I still use my old AH800 and AH 1000 along with Lowrance 3500C ...
 
Baggywrinkle said:
My old raymarine will not alter course without manual intervention. I would imagine that all autopilots following a track are like this.

Two reasons are ...

When under sail you wouldn't want the boat to automatically tack without some kind of acceptance from the crew that they are ready - a pan of boiling pasta over your legs might be the result.

When motoring, the autopilot doesn't have enough sensors to know what other vessels are around you, it would be pretty bad if you were passing another yacht, and the autopilot decided to change course and ram it, just because it happened to correspond to a waypoint with a course change.

From an autonomous driving perspective (something I work with relating to cars) the person in charge (human) has a far better set of sensors and better perception of the immediate environment than any currect piece of marine electronics - they are also ultimately responsible for the vehicle. The human operator needs to be "in the loop" for any decision to change direction IMO. Anything else is opening the equipment supplier up to legal problems in the event of an accident.

With the current state of marine electronics and available sensors for cruising yachts, keeping a human in the loop is, I think, essential.

The other point is that, even under autopilot you are required to constantly keep a lookout. In my somewhat crowded cruising ground, the proliferation of autopilots and plotters means that most leisure yachts follow almost exactly the same course on certain routes, I often have to change autopilot course to avoid boats coming in the opposite direction.
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Its also interesting you mention the use of similar tracks because of GPS / Plotters etc.

It may interest you to know that Shipping has similar situation. Imagine - you have millions of sq nm of ocean but two ships need Colregs when they meet mid ocean ... because you meet ships on similar tracks ...
 
Refueler said:
Its also interesting you mention the use of similar tracks because of GPS / Plotters etc.

It may interest you to know that Shipping has similar situation. Imagine - you have millions of sq nm of ocean but two ships need Colregs when they meet mid ocean ... because you meet ships on similar tracks ...
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That comment stirred me to try to find a photograph from 1982 or so of the bow of a ship
(maybe the ‘Ming Universe’) flattened neatly back to the collision bulkhead after a collision in mid-Pacific. But I can’t find it.

It has become a custom, since GPS, to keep to starboard of the rhumb line when approaching Singapore Straits, for just this reason.
 
Kukri said:
That comment stirred me to try to find a photograph from 1982 or so of the bow of a ship
(maybe the ‘Ming Universe’) flattened neatly back to the collision bulkhead after a collision in mid-Pacific. But I can’t find it.

It has become a custom, since GPS, to keep to starboard of the rhumb line when approaching Singapore Straits, for just this reason.
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Similar convention for aircraft I believe.
 
Refueler said:
This is the same basis as was before when I spoke to manufacturers when I lived in UK ... Raymarine was just down the road from where I lived etc.
They maintained safety was paramount and that autonomous course change was not an option. Its been quite a while since then and I am not up on the latest decision on this as I still use my old AH800 and AH 1000 along with Lowrance 3500C ...
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Doesn't look like much has changed .... but then, if a system is good enough - why invest millions in development to remove one button press? .... especially a button press that absolves you of responsibility for the consequences of a course change.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Doesn't look like much has changed .... but then, if a system is good enough - why invest millions in development to remove one button press? .... especially a button press that absolves you of responsibility for the consequences of a course change.
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I understand what you mean in that last bit ... just getting my head around the wording !!

It would be dreamland if the plotter just took you through a route and you could just sit there with your 'glass' and let world go by ...

But it would be a disaster I reckon !!

Even the best ship needs OOW to turn the Auto Pilot dial to the new heading ... and TBH - I cannot recall seeing GPS linked to ships Auto ... never was on any ship I've sailed or visited since.
 
Refueler said:
I understand what you mean in that last bit ... just getting my head around the wording !!

It would be dreamland if the plotter just took you through a route and you could just sit there with your 'glass' and let world go by ...

But it would be a disaster I reckon !!

Even the best ship needs OOW to turn the Auto Pilot dial to the new heading ... and TBH - I cannot recall seeing GPS linked to ships Auto ... never was on any ship I've sailed or visited since.
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The first plotter I saw, over 20yrs ago had this safety feature. If the plotter could make course changes, someone would be tempted to set it and spend the trip below. Of course, only an idiot would do that. Do such idiots exist? Almost certainly yes.
 
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