How easy is it to screw up riveting?

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Oscarpop

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As a procedure that I have never carried out, it would seem as if it is something I should learn.

Spinnaker track, blocks,cleats. These are all things that I have seen riveted onto masts.

I read the thread with interest the other month about screws vs rivets and am happy to go with rivets, based on the assumption that my gooseneck is riveted on, so they should be strong enough.

So is it simply a question of drilling a hole, offering up the object to be riveted and then compressing the rivet gun? Or have I got this wrong ( yet again ).

thanks
 
It's simple once one is used to it; I'd definitely suggest a fair bit of practice on odd bits of alloy etc first, rivets are cheap.

The hole has to be just the right size for the rivet, 'duralac' anti corrosion paste between joined surfaces.

One of the most crucial things is to keep the rivet gun face pressed firmly and squarely onto the subject.

With a little practice you'll soon learn about 'taking the right length of bite' on the rivet.

OTOH hand if anyone offers to 'show you the golden rivet', run like the wind ! :)
 
Apart from following Seajets recommendations the secret of successful and easy riveting is to use a pantagram type of riveter, also know as lazy tongs.

images

If in the UK Screwfix or similar places sell them cheaply
 
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Oscarpop said:
As a procedure that I have never carried out, it would seem as if it is something I should learn.

Spinnaker track, blocks,cleats. These are all things that I have seen riveted onto masts.

I read the thread with interest the other month about screws vs rivets and am happy to go with rivets, based on the assumption that my gooseneck is riveted on, so they should be strong enough.

So is it simply a question of drilling a hole, offering up the object to be riveted and then compressing the rivet gun? Or have I got this wrong ( yet again ).

thanks
Click to expand...

Be careful if you are pointing the rivet gun directly downwards.I had a couple of the mandrels drop down inside the mast before I got a chance to take up the slack for the final squeeze :mad:
 
Top tip given to me when I had loads of rivets to get out, instead of drilling them out, knock the heads off with an old chisel - I did what was needed over a lunchtime what would have taken me a whole morning!

If using steel centered as opposed to all ali rivets get some ACF-50 spray or ACF-50 corrosion block grease on the inners to stop them corroding as well as the mating surface...
 
Make sure the rivet body is long enough to compress before backing up on the workpiece. Otherwise you'll get a messy rivet that is only half secured and you'll not be sure it has bitten properly, or that it hasn't almost cut into it's own body on the edge of the hole. Make sure the holes you drill are a snug fit for the same reason and be sure the two parts you are joining are firmly in contact before compressing the rivet. If there are a few rivets to lock, use the gun to place them all in position before tightening any one rivet thus avoiding the embarrassing situation of the last rivet not going into it's hole because the others have skewed the piece.
 
May be my lazy tongs or poor rivets but I sometimes have problems with the mandrels pushing themselves back as the gun resets to grip them again. Not sure why it's happening any thoughts.
 
A couple of tips.
Put the rivet in the gun before putting in the hole and take a bite on the mandrel, this may stop the mandrel dropping into the rivet, if this happens use a small screwdriver to hold the mandrel up or rivet upside down.
Drill sizes for the most popular rivets are 3/16 = 4.9 drill, 1/4 = 6.5 drill. If drilling in to a mast put a cork on the drill as this will stop you drilling in to electric's or halyards. When drilling rivets out knock out the centre pin first. Use only Monel rivets, cost a lot but won't fail!
 
Not done a lot of riveting but a few comments

I bought a lazy tongs type from Tool Station for about £16.
I have used it to set 5mm Monel rivets.
It might not be up to 1/4" stainless ones and I have paid more for one if I'd thought I was likely to be using it a lot but I am well pleased with it. Looks good and works well

I think the one in Norman_E's link may be a bit difficult to use unless you have good upper body strength. I'd want one with longer handles unless it has some form of ratchet action.

If you use the lazy tongs type hold the business end or it'll go skidding across the work, with the end of the mandrel projecting, when it pops.

When resetting the gun to take a second bite be sure to fully open it out or it will do as davidwf says and push the mandrel in.

There is a guide somewhere to the length of rivet require vs thickness of the work ... some brands ( eg the aluminium ones I bought from B&Q) are labelled with the thickness that they are suitable for.

Be careful about the diameters some are metric some are imperial and there is a slight difference between the equivalents..... I had to enlarge a load of holes in stainless steel I'd drilled to fit the rivets I'd bought.
 
merlin3688 said:
A couple of tips.
Put the rivet in the gun before putting in the hole and take a bite on the mandrel, this may stop the mandrel dropping into the rivet, if this happens use a small screwdriver to hold the mandrel up or rivet upside down.
Drill sizes for the most popular rivets are 3/16 = 4.9 drill, 1/4 = 6.5 drill. If drilling in to a mast put a cork on the drill as this will stop you drilling in to electric's or halyards. When drilling rivets out knock out the centre pin first. Use only Monel rivets, cost a lot but won't fail!
Click to expand...

+1 for only using Monel..
I have a boat with an odd mixture of metric and imperial bolts screws and rivets. For any repairs or new work i do, i only use metric.
Fortunately this policy hasn't come up against replacing any 1/4 rivets, cos the 1/4 holes are technically too big for 6 mm rivets.

As an apprentice i spent whole days pop riveting things sometimes. We had both lazy tongs and long arm riveters. I used both but preferred the direct handling of the long arms really even though the lazy tongs had greater mechanical advantage.

Good luck.
 
Norman_E said:
Has anyone tried this type of riveter. I ask because the lazy tong type can be awkward to handle if you are up the mast, and the one handed type are far too small and weak.
Click to expand...

This tool will not place rivets! It is designed to place threaded inserts.

This whole thread seems concentrated on tooling and it is assumed that all rivets are the same. Sorry but there are many different types of rivet available in many different materials. Choosing the right type of rivet and material is crucial to a successful joint.

Having spent the majority of my working life in the fastener industry I could write a book on rivets alone. The best advice I can offer is to visit your local fastener distributor (find him in Yellow Pages) and ask his advice. He will, (usually) be happy to help.

John
 
VicS said:
It says rivets (upto 6.4mm) and nut rivets in the description!
Click to expand...

The tool illustrated is set up to install threaded inserts, but you are correct the description (which I did not read) says it will install rivets as well.

I can only assume that you remove the threaded mandrel and insert a jaw housing and a set of jaws behind the nose tip. (Shown in the plastic bag?)

We used to sell this type of tool for inserts but not the dual purpose version. Please accept my apologies for my initial hasty response.

John
 
maxi77 said:
Great but almost all seem to be either aluminium or steel no monel or stainless rivets
Click to expand...

The first one on the left in the link is available in stainless with, I assume, a stainless pin.

The rivet material really depends on what you are joining. You need to avoid galvanic corrosion. See here for explanation and chart of comparative metals:
http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm

Hope this helps

John
 
Norman_E said:
Has anyone tried this type of riveter. I ask because the lazy tong type can be awkward to handle if you are up the mast, and the one handed type are far too small and weak.
Click to expand...

I would'nt buy that Norman because the one I used was like that but much more manly with longer handles & it still was'nt a push over on 6 or 6.5mm monel rivets.(I forget which).
 
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