How does insurance assessment work?

[dgadee]

Granton was badly hit by Babet and damage to boats including my own. I think only the bow - but perhaps the rudder. Luckily the mast was down for lift out (postponed due to incoming storm).

Some of you will have been here before. I want to keep the boat (no other 30 footers I eould want) but what happens if my insurance company says too expensive to repair?

 

[Refueler]

If Insurance declares Constructive Total Loss and offers you a settlement figure - you still have option to keep boat and accept a different offer.

My Snapdragon 23 was declared CTL and offer was made to me to clear ... I accepted their offer - BUT only on basis I kept the boat. They of course then countered by a reduced offer saying that I was keeping an asset value.
Simple answer to them : What are you going to do with it then ? Will you then go to trouble to dispose of the boat ? Possible transport costs and find another site to stand- as Yard it was in wanted clearance of the boat if they were not repairing etc.

Insurance then agreed the first figure which was basically its market value ... plus my keeping the boat. I had already quietly agreed a price to repair and boat was repaired .... back in good service ...

The question is - can you get an assessment of repairs privately just in case Insurance refuse and do CTL ? What is market value - not what you think its worth - but real market value ? What is the repair cost vs that value ? What is Insurance excess you are to cover ? Is it better to empty your gear - take the money and walk away to buy another boat ?

 

[B27]

Ouch!

First read your policy docs.

You need to start getting together costings for fixing it.
You should be able to get a ballpark figure for the GRP work, then add on yard time etc.
Transport, surveyors and other add-ons will be significant?
Map out the whole process of getting it back on the water.

If your insurer thinks it's too high a fraction of the insured value, they may prefer to write it off, in which case you may be able to negotiate keeping the boat and getting it repaired.

If the 'obvious damage' is not too expensive, the next step may be to check for less obvious damage.
They won't want to spend thousands fixing the bow without knowing what else needs doing.

You need to take reasonable steps to prevent further damage, i.e. you need to check it isn't going to sink in the next breeze. and do what you reasonably can.

Basically you need to gather facts and talk to them.

If it is remotely close to being a write off, some would advise you to take the money, if you want to sail next year.

Is this all on your insurance or is there some failure of the marina like a pontoon breaking free?

 

[dgadee]

A Konsort (I think) dragged its moorings. Boat comes ashore with others next weekend. Only anchor locker exposed.

I am in Greece but club is good and have looked inside but seen no water.

 

[Refueler]

A Konsort (I think) dragged its moorings. Boat comes ashore with others next weekend. Only anchor locker exposed.

I am in Greece but club is good and have looked inside but seen no water.

So you are a 3rd Party - victim - and all costs should be on guilty party ....

 

[dgadee]

D

So you are a 3rd Party - victim - and all costs should be on guilty party ....

I'd imagine it would be hard to prove negligence. Club very good at overseeing moorings.

 

[Tranona]

So you are a 3rd Party - victim - and all costs should be on guilty party ....

Not necessarily. First you have to prove that the owner of the errant boat was negligent and therefore liable for the damage to your boa. Then the negligence might not be his but the person responsible for the mooring if that is what failed. If the OP has all risks insurance then the advice in post#3 is sound. Make a claim against the policy in line with the insurance contract laid out in the policy document. The insurer will deal with that and then seek to recover their losses from the third party or parties.

If however the policy is third party only then the OP will have to make a claim direct against the third party under the law of tort. He will have to prove the third party was negligent and makes his claim to put him back in the same position as he was before the incident. He may also claim for consequential losses if any he incurred as a direct result of the negligence of the third party. Be aware though that this route is much more challenging than claiming under contract, but may be easier if the claimant has legal expenses for uninsured losses linked to his policy.

 

[dgadee]

Always go comprehensive has beeny mantra since I was cast ashore on the Dutch coast 40 years ago. I was then and am now. Boat insurance is relatively cheap.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Someone I knew had to abandon mid Atlantic. Their insurance paid out and the boat drifted across and was picked up by a fisherman. The insurance company’s attitude was ‘it’s still your boat’ you do what you like. They paid off the fisherman and repaired the boat…

 

[jwilson]

Granton was badly hit by Babet and damage to boats including my own. I think only the bow - but perhaps the rudder. Luckily the mast was down for lift out (postponed due to incoming storm).

Some of you will have been here before. I want to keep the boat (no other 30 footers I eould want) but what happens if my insurance company says too expensive to repair?

That loooks horribly like approaching a "constructive total loss" for the insurer as a 1970s/80s 30-footer. By the time you have liftout, estimates, storage charges and a boatyard labour rate bill for repair and relaunch you may be getting towards the insured value.

It has never happened to me with a boat but with a car I once bought the car back from the insurance company for scrap value and had it repaired myself, You are then into arguing about the value as it was undamaged - which is how much you should get less scrap value. Boats essentially have zero or even negative scrap value: it will probably cost the insurer to legally dispose of it. If you take the offered value disposing of the boat becomes the insurers problem.

 

[Bristolfashion]

So you are a 3rd Party - victim - and all costs should be on guilty party ....

Sadly, when there's a major event, there may not be a "guilty" party. If this were in the UK then the Konsort owner / mooring installer etc would have to be negligent in some way - which may or may not be the case, but you (or your insurers) would have to prove it. The law in Greece may be different.

 

[B27]

That loooks horribly like approaching a "constructive total loss" for the insurer as a 1970s/80s 30-footer. By the time you have liftout, estimates, storage charges and a boatyard labour rate bill for repair and relaunch you may be getting towards the insured value.

It has never happened to me with a boat but with a car I once bought the car back from the insurance company for scrap value and had it repaired myself, You are then into arguing about the value as it was undamaged - which is how much you should get less scrap value. Boats essentially have zero or even negative scrap value: it will probably cost the insurer to legally dispose of it. If you take the offered value disposing of the boat becomes the insurers problem.

Some insurers are wise to the 'system', if the boat is written off, they may take possession of all the useful stuff or reduce the payout to let you keep it. This is certainly an increasingly common practice with dinghies, where parts like masts, sails, rudders etc may add up to having a resale value significant in terms of the boat value.

That bow does not look too hard to mend, but first find me a nice warm shed please.
I hope it all gets sorted.

Think of it as an opportunity to add a J120-style bowsprit!

 

[dgadee]

I have put a lot into the boat over the past 12 years to get it where I want it. Minor tidying up inside is all that is now needed. New hatches, new engine, sprayhood, good sails and just put lines back to the cockpit, etc. etc. I have only just started to race it and it is a performer.

I was never a change the car kind of person.

There were only 10 Seawolf 30s ever built, so they do not often come up for sale. And I need 2 keels for the east coast.

My preference is to get the boat repaired. But having moved home to Scottyland I have found that workmanship is not what was used to in my decades in NI. You could trust a job would be done properly there. Not so much here.

 

[DownWest]

Personally, I would fix that. But dgadee might not have the time or skills. So depends on who has locally.

 

[dunedin]

Very sad to see that. Hope you can get it fixed OK for next season.

 

[dgadee]

Personally, I would fix that. But dgadee might not have the time or skills. So depends on who has locally.

It takes the forestay and kerps up the mast. That would be my concern.

 

[dunedin]

It takes the forestay and kerps up the mast. That would be my concern.

It can certainly be repaired strong enough for that, if done by a skilled repairer. (Race boats are regularly sliced up and rebuilt to optimise for rating rule.). The question is whether at affordable cost.

Do you know any good GRP repairers who work on that side of the country (there are quite of few around the Clyde, but may be too far for them to want to travel)?

 

[penfold]

A Sigma 33 had its bow modified in a similar way at the nationals a few years ago; if I'd not seen the wreckage I'd not know it had happened, the laminator did such an excellent and invisible repair.

 

[dgadee]

It can certainly be repaired strong enough for that, if done by a skilled repairer. (Race boats are regularly sliced up and rebuilt to optimise for rating rule.). The question is whether at affordable cost.

Do you know any good GRP repairers who work on that side of the country (there are quite of few around the Clyde, but may be too far for them to want to travel)?

I suppose the boat could go to the repairer on the back of a lorry.

 

[dunedin]

I suppose the boat could go to the repairer on the back of a lorry.

If you can’t find somebody local, you could try Alan Robertson of Meadowside Marine. Never needed anything that big but done a couple of quality GRP jobs for me for a Clyde based boat. Might be willing to travel?