How do you set sails correctly?

[HappyHunter]

Here are some useful videos on Youtube (there are plenty more) Speaking personally I found Gibson's book rather impenetrable, and my wife gave up after trying to work out what the section headed "some fundamentals" was all about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0wfGzhlRhI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31nGzO54O4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rYb0am2YTk&feature=related

 

[snooks]

I hesitate to mention that YM do a good publication on sail trim, well IMHO that is.

You mean Sailpower?

Yep it's a great book about sail trim for the cruising yachtsman, written by the technical editor of Yachting Monthly, who's now the editor of Sail, average photos mind


My advice to the OP:

Get lots of tell tails and learn how to use then

 

[flaming]

The best, and fastest, way of learning sail trim is to have a racing coach come on board and help you. Almost all racing coaches are also cruising instructors, so don't be afraid that they'll make you sit on the rail all day, but someone who races - and coaches racing - will be streets ahead of someone who doesn't.

PM me if you want a couple of reccomendations.

 

[chinita]

I found this book useful:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sail-Rig-Tu...0670/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327490128&sr=8-1

 

[Sailfree]

I would try to crew for a dinghy that is racing as any errors are easier to see and in a race you can tell when your sails are set best and you are going fast.

Don't try to teach yourself unless you have patience. SWMBO and myself have taught ourselves and its taken us 18yrs to be at the front and get some wins in a competitive fleet.

Very noticeable on my 43DS when I have dinghy racing friends on board how the boat goes so much faster.

 

[Twister_Ken]

There's also Looking at Sails, written by my old 'owner' with a bit of input from Bruce Banks. Out of print, but available lightly used from Amazon. Out of date for modern rigs and sails, but still valid if you're sailing an '80's vintage boat.

One thing that book covers in some detail is rig set-up. All the sail trimming expertise in the world won't help much if the rig is cranky.

 

[Simondjuk]

Or there's the original and definitive Sail Power by Wallace Ross. 500 plus pages starting with a comprehensive aerodynamics lesson. Long out of print but widely available second hand.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Maybe I am getting deja vu, or this was also asked about 2 weeks ago ! Nonetheless, my suggestion is the same - this book from the RYA will help you, also available on Amazon and other well known yachting book stores.

 

[Caladh]

If the wind is coming from behind, you have the option of ditching the genoa and setting a kite or a chute. Or, of dropping the main and relying on the genoa alone. That depends on the size balance between the two sails, wind strength and exact point of sail.

If I were going downwind on white sails, first I'd let off backstay tension. Then I'd take the genoa sheet lead aft and outboard, slack the halyard a bit, then trim the genoa to keep telltales flying (so it's acting as an aerofoil and not a bag of wind), then let some halyard and outhaul go on the main, and sheet/traveller it out until it shows signs of starting to choke the slot. Next haul down the kicker a bit to keep the leech, then play the mainsheet to look for best speed.

...Poor Op. I bet he's never realised that it was even possible to choke the slot.....

 

[Nostrodamus]

Thank you for your replies.
From them I would deduce that unless you know someone who is very good at sail trimming and they are willing to take a long time teaching you then you are left reading books, sucking and seeing. Even then there are numerous combinations or ways to try and get the right set. As cruisers or weekend sailors most have a rough idea but there are many other things they could do but don't.

 

[Nostrodamus]

...Poor Op. I bet he's never realised that it was even possible to choke the slot.....

I agree there is so much I don't know but I am happy to ask the questions to learn from people as yourself who know everything. I know I will carry on learning but never know as much as I would like.

 

[chewi]

Airflow? Adjust the sails!

There's a series of articles by a Boeing research aerodynamic engineer Arvel Gentry published in the book "Best of Sail Trim", but also to be found on the 'net if you google for him.

http://www.arvelgentry.com/magaz.htm

He explains how sails work in a quite scientific way that would answer that question, but they will take several reads to comprehend. He became consultant to the US Americas Cup team.
He introduced telltales and explains (for example) that as you turn a sail downwind, eventually the streamlines leave the lee side it s,talls and the drive is lost, but beforehand a small bubble of flow at the leading edge detaches and reattaches, so the loss is only minimal.
If a telltale is fitted there, then you get an early warning of stall.


I understand the frustration, as many books say "trim it in , trim it out, flatten it, move the chord fwd/back etc", but it all depends on how you had it badly set in the first place!

 

[chewi]

"Tiller to spiller"

Re Tell Tails
The best bit of advice I had was if they are drooping show them some wind, if the windward is drooping bear away, if the leeward is drooping come up.
Thanks to Tom Cunliffe

I invented my own...

"Tiller to spiller" if windward tell tale spills, pull tiller to windward and vice versa for the leeward telltale.

Doesnt work with a wheel though, unless you treat the wheel top as a tiller!

 

[mcframe]

Thank you for your replies.
From them I would deduce that unless you know someone who is very good at sail trimming and they are willing to take a long time teaching you then you are left reading books, sucking and seeing. Even then there are numerous combinations or ways to try and get the right set. As cruisers or weekend sailors most have a rough idea but there are many other things they could do but don't.

Someone once pointed out to me that the reason big posh race boats have big posh instruments below the gooseneck is so that whoever is trimming *their* bit can see the effect on boat speed.

The rest of us just try to keep a steady helm and only tweak one thing at a time - and sometimes watch the Match Racing/AC repeats on TV.

+1 for the RYA book.

(and /practice/ with an ace race trimmer, where there is time to demonstrate the effect of tweaking something in /both/ directions under non-race conditions.)

 

[Marmalade]

Of course read all the books - but to try and answer the OPs question...

1. Create the fullest shape you can without the luff flapping
2. Upwind sheet in; downwind ease out
3. Light airs move genoa cars forward; back in stronger breezes
4. Light airs bring traveller up to windward and ease sheet for fuller shape; stonger breezes drop traveller off to leeward
5. Try to sail with the tell-tales streaming horizontally

Everything else is for racers if you ask me!!! (luff tension, cunninghams, barber haulers etc)

 

[Twister_Ken]

Thank you for your replies.
From them I would deduce that unless you know someone who is very good at sail trimming and they are willing to take a long time teaching you then you are left reading books, sucking and seeing.

No. As I pointed out earlier, you can get a ride on a race boat (who knows, you might enjoy it) or you can get instruction. I even pointed out that the Cruising Association is running a sail trim day in March.

 

[ytd]

If in doubt let it out. The biggest cause of bad sail trim I see is oversheeting. More amazing is that when you pass some skippers with oversheeted sails they respond by hauling them in a bit more.

 

[SamSalter]

When you read those monthly sailing magazines, don't read the article that explains how some library assistant made a new set of companionway steps out of toilet roll tubes and Sellotape; read the articles about sail trim! Eventually, some of it will stick.
But for all the books and magazine articles, the only way to really pull it all together is to sail with someone who knows. If you don't know a good sailor, or don't like to ask, one weekend on an advanced sail trim course will blow your socks off - really!
sam

 

[Nostrodamus]

I think it is a bit like playing golf.
There are times when you go out and seem to be able to set the sails and everything works but there are other times when it seems no matter what you do it just does not seem to come together.
Like golf there are professionals who get it right most of the time, then there are the amateurs, some good, some bad but we enjoy it and try to improve.
We occasionally get a hole in one but more often than not it is just an average round and there are days we should have stayed at home.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I would imagine that if there were any competent sail trimmers reading this thread who were willing to take a few out on a boat for a day to show them some ideas other fourumites would jump at the chance to go. I certainly would if I were not abroad.
Might even make a good YM article and Snooks could make a good cover from it.