How do you set sails correctly?

[Nostrodamus]

What are the rules for setting sails correctly?

There are times when my boat flies along and other times when no matter what I do I cannot seem to set the sails correctly for the wind. I know I am not alone judging by other boats and skippers I have seen.

I have sailed for years but never been shown how to genuinely set sails and people who have tried to show me have only half known.

A lot of people know how to set three or fours things but doing them all in balance seems a black art. I have only sailed with a few people who ever move the Genoa car and then it seems the do it fully forward or back. There must be all those stops in it between for a reason

Take for instance the basic main and Genoa with tell tails.

Is there anyone out there who can give me some basic rules for setting the sails?

 

[jwilson]

What are the rules for setting sails correctly?

There are times when my boat flies along and other times when no matter what I do I cannot seem to set the sails correctly for the wind. I know I am not alone judging by other boats and skippers I have seen.

I have sailed for years but never been shown how to genuinely set sails and people who have tried to show me have only half known.

A lot of people know how to set three or fours things but doing them all in balance seems a black art. I have only sailed with a few people who ever move the Genoa car and then it seems the do it fully forward or back. There must be all those stops in it between for a reason

Take for instance the basic main and Genoa with tell tails.

Is there anyone out there who can give me some basic rules for setting the sails?

Yes there are people out there who can set sails properly - but mostly they are towards the front of racing fleets. As a start, work through the Tips and Advice section of the North Sails website.

Sailmakers must love the "never adjust the genoa cars" people (they are not sailors) as it is the fast way to wreck sails and make you buy new quicker. My other pet hate is those who think that the leech line is to stop the upper part of the genoa leech flapping - instead of moving the car forward and sheeting in they yank the leech line in hard.

 

[VicS]

Thats big topic to expect anyone to answer on a forum.

You will however find some useful guidance in UK-Halsey's Encylopdedia of sails

Maybe other people know of some other links that will help or be able to recommend a good book

 

[Seajet]

Jwilson's mention of adjusting foresail cars is right...as a general guide, if on a steady course let the sheets out a few inches and 'play' the sail; when it 'luffs' and stalls, blowing from the leeward side at the leading edge, sheet in a touch to prevent this; then you will have the most effective aerofoil shape.

If racing, the sheets are rarely cleated, the crew will be constantly playing the headsail, ditto the skipper or assigned crew with the main.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Get a couple of rides on a good racing boat, and see what they do. Or invite a trimmer to come out with you.

The problem with trying to do anything via the forum is that there are so many variables. My main, for example, has seven* major shape controls, and each has a different but complementary effect.

*Halyard, outhaul, kicker, backstay, cunningham, sheet, traveller.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I agree it is a big topic but probably like many others I go round playing with sails and no doubt doing a lot wrong. It would be interesting to see how many actual sailors know fully what they are doing when they set sail or how many variations on a theme there is. Is there anywhere who actually teach sail setting rather than how to get onto a pontoon?
I was told a long time ago that if the wind is coming from behind the main should be set first and then the Genoa. what other basics are there?

 

[flaming]

This has to be the best example of a question that is simple to ask, but not to answer!

A massive, massive subject....

However, as a "starter for 10" the thing I would start with is halyard tension. How many people simply haul up the sails "until they are tight" without thinking about the effect that halyard tension has on shape? And how many people adjust the tension when the wind builds / drops?

Get the basic aerofoil shapes right, and you can build from there. But get these wrong and all talk of car positions etc is window dressing.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Ok, really basic, what causes tell tails on the head sail to sag downwards or flutter upwards and what should you do to correct it?

 

[awol]

Is there anywhere who actually teach sail setting rather than how to get onto a pontoon?

Twister_Ken has given you the example of his mainsail with 7 separate but interacting controls (and he missed out the leach line and batten tension). For a foresail I count 6 controls, only 1 (or possibly 2) of which interacts with the main.
One of the complaints I get when cruising is that I won't sit still and am forever fiddling with ropes. Apparently, banging on the autotiller and ignoring the sails is more enjoyable!
Go read the North web pages, google mainsail and/or foresail trimming, buy books, but then you have to go racing to see if you have it right. Be warned though of the lure of new sails to give perfection.
Best trimming advice I ever got was - "if in doubt, let it out".

 

[awol]

Ok, really basic, what causes tell tails on the head sail to sag downwards or flutter upwards and what should you do to correct it?

Airflow? Adjust the sails!

 

[edsailing]

Ok, really basic, what causes tell tails on the head sail to sag downwards or flutter upwards and what should you do to correct it?

If the tell tails are fluttering upward you need to sheet in, if drooping you need to ease the sheets.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I was told a long time ago that if the wind is coming from behind the main should be set first and then the Genoa.

If the wind is coming from behind, you have the option of ditching the genoa and setting a kite or a chute. Or, of dropping the main and relying on the genoa alone. That depends on the size balance between the two sails, wind strength and exact point of sail.

If I were going downwind on white sails, first I'd let off backstay tension. Then I'd take the genoa sheet lead aft and outboard, slack the halyard a bit, then trim the genoa to keep telltales flying (so it's acting as an aerofoil and not a bag of wind), then let some halyard and outhaul go on the main, and sheet/traveller it out until it shows signs of starting to choke the slot. Next haul down the kicker a bit to keep the leech, then play the mainsheet to look for best speed.

 

[Blueboatman]

A very simplistic answer because you say that sometimes no matter what you do , the boat won't 'go':
My used teabags worth:
The set of the tide and the sea state have such a marked effect on things, sometimes you have to ease the sheets free and sail a course that gets the boat sailing, then as speed builds, bring her up towards where you actually want to head, sheeting in as you do but not oversheeting for the wave conditions and killing the performance and having the boat just wallowing in a hole again.
A slightly grubby bottom(Ooer) will kill light airs performance too.
Similarly- and frustratingly- whenever a large mobo goes by, the bow and stern wakes can upset the sails and you have to get her back up to speed all over again. And again

So perhaps it's not what you 'think' you are doing wrong with the sail trim per se?

 

[nickd]

Re Tell Tails
The best bit of advice I had was if they are drooping show them some wind, if the windward is drooping bear away, if the leeward is drooping come up.
Thanks to Tom Cunliffe

 

[Twister_Ken]

Or...

 

[Sinc]

If you want a good theoretical (and useable) description of sail trim the RYA has a 'Sail Trim for Cruisers' book by Rob Gibson. I fould it very useful as a starting point for experimentation.
It also clearly answers a lot of the basic questions including the tell tale question above - not quite so simple as I once thought!!

 

[ValleyForge]

Feel the force. Only works if you are called Luke & have a sister with buns in her hair though.

Otherwise best route is to get a bod on board who regularly tops a local racing fleet. Any sort of multi-sail class will do. An offer of a nicely chilled glass of Chablis should do the trick. You may have a revelation. On the other hand you will at least enjoy a pleasant chat.

 

[Riga]

Sail trim

Being in the same situation I have bought and read some books on the subject.
For explaining the woodo I can recommend Sail Trim by Peter Hahne. For the trimming itself many sailmakers seem to have good information on their homepages. I printed out some of it and read while sailing testing different approaches. Confident with my new knowledge I participated in the club racing with eleven identic boats, tenth place. Only excuse is that I was single handed and the others couples having owned their boats much longer then me.
Nevertheless it was a good experience. Next race I had something resembling a crew and we came 11 of 31 boats, this time all kinds of boats sailing on handicap.
My wish is to get some sort of private lesson in trimming by an experienced person. Its not only vain. Sometimes one has to beat to windward in not preferred weather even in the Baltic and then correct trim seems to make a hugh difference.

 

[Wansworth]

The previous owner of my boat an Albin Vega was showing me how to use the mainsheet horse and how good thetiller extension was as it enabled me to see the jib,he was a racing man and no doubt picked up all he knows racing dinghies as he did;dinghies are more reseptive to tweeking.On the other hand I sometimes go sailing with a mate who is constantly fiddling or giving instructions aboutsomething so wer can go faster: I know I should take more attention but fiddling about does not leave much time for doing nothing and relaxing.

 

[Blue5]

I hesitate to mention that YM do a good publication on sail trim, well IMHO that is.
I am compulsive twitcher of the sails. Last year while on passage in light winds I was beside myself as a much smaller boat caught us up at amazing speed, as he passed us we could see the water from his exhaust.............SWMBO reckons that from being a grumpy git my little face lit up............