How do you know if a boat you're buying on a hard standing will float?

Refueler said:
Basic Boat is good enough for the OP ... no survey .... 3rd party + Wreck Recovery.

NO survey unless actually afloat will ever confirm a boat will float !!!!! It will say - 'As far as practicable determined' ..........
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I'm not sure what the construction is? If it was fiberglass I'd look at the thru hulls and prop seal and if they were OK I'd say almost certainly it would float.

The advice I received from a good (experienced sailor) friend:

"When you come to insure her, the insurer will probably require a survey. It might be best to inquire about this before you put her in the water, as the surveyor will want to look at the hull. I think that we needed a survey every five years, and we tried to combine this with her annual slip for cleaning and antifouling."
 
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Refueler said:
People make replies based on ????? What info do they have that makes then say 'walk away' ? I cannot find any..
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+1

The OP specifically says "it looks good". No statement that it's a wreck or "project boat". Seller would seem to have a valid reason to offload cheaply. The questions about seaworthyness seem to be based on lack of knowledge and over-concern rather than an observation that the boat looks a bit dodgy.

A surveyor isn't guaranteed to find every fault but a good one should give some fair degree of security, a list of jobs to be done post-purchase and possibly info for bargaining.

I bought my boat ashore. The yard wanted 3rd party insurance as soon as I bought it (ie just to be in the yard, prior to launch).
 
coopec said:
I'm not sure what the construction is? If it was fiberglass I'd look at the thru hulls and prop seal and if they were OK I'd say almost certainly it would float.

The advice I received from a good (experienced sailor) friend:

"When you come to insure her, the insurer will probably require a survey. It might be best to inquire about this before you put her in the water, as the surveyor will want to look at the hull. I think that we needed a survey every five years, and we tried to combine this with her annual slip for cleaning and antifouling."
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In UK and Europe are various Insurers that will give 3rd Party cover via online application. No need for survey as you are not actually insuring the boat itself - you are asking for 3rd party liability coverage ...
Basic Boat is a popular provider in UK ....

As a surveyor and boat owner of many decades .... I can say quite honestly that Insurers have taken up various comments by 'surveyors' in the past and created limitations / requirements that are unnecessary. Unfortunately for the boaters - its highly unlikely such will ever be rescinded. But that's another matter ... suffice it to say that in UK / EU there are still odd Insurers who will insure without Survey.
 
NingNong247 said:
I've been offered a cheap boat. It's on a hard standing. The owner knows nothing about it - it came with the property after the guy died, he just wants rid, so that's why the price is so low. It looks good, but what steps can I take to be as sure as possible that the thing floats before going to the considerable hassle and expense of buying it and putting it in the water? I see boats on hard standings all the time for sale, people must buy them. How and why do people do that if they're not absolutely sure that the boat floats? The owner of the one in question has been assured it floats, but ultimately he's not willing to promise it since he hasn't seen it in the water either.

Bonus question: What happens when a boat sinks, legally? Do I get a big bill for the cleanup?
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The risked cost to you is the purchase price, moving price and cost to scrap it, at worst, at best the risk cost is putting it back on the hard to repair the leak.. It has always been normal, in my experience, when a boat is launched by a yard to hold in slings while searching for leaks. In my case I have the cupboards open at the seacocks (usually because I have greased mine, serviced them), and have the cabin sole up at the log, propellor shaft and anodes. When launched, I have a good look around and see if there is any water coming in. If it is on a trailer, you can do the same.

Let's says it is totally shot and will leak like a sieve, that should be obvious from an external examination at the sellers home, at that point you can walk away if there is obvious signs of hull damaged. Really take a close look, bring a brush and good torch and plastic faced mallet. Carefully examine the hull for any obvious signs of damage, brush or wipe any areas where surface dirt is in the way, tap the hull, it should all sound about the same; look inside, grab seacocks and give good wiggle, look at anything on the inside that penetrates a hull, especially below the water line. If it is not obvious, assume okay. If you take the boat, empty it out, service anything that goes through the hull, launch it, observe. You will likely be okay and as others have said, damage may be obvious. Also as Refueler states, it may not be obvious but should be detectable, especially over a number of days. Do the taste test, salt water or fresh water, a lot of water can come through as rain on poor sealed deck fittings et cetera.

You could ask a surveyor to just do a hull integrity examination, talk to them, they price accordingly and it may be affordable if surveyor is local.

Good luck with your boat search.
 
38mess said:
Walk away. I have a feeling there will be plenty of good 'lockdown' boats coming up for sale before spring
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I keep an eye on sale sites and what I see are asking prices going up greater than usual seasonal variations ....

The problem is, as I see it, someone has a boat X they want to sell ... they regard it as above average condition ... they search the web seeing what other boat X's are set at ... they set their price at that or slightly higher ..
Before long - you have a 10K boat ... asking 15K ... and so on.

Lockdown boats ?? Think that has 'sailed' ... forgive the pun. I see a resurgence of boat sales as people can now travel to view ... I already know of a number of boats taken off market and then shortly after resubmitted with higher price tag

If you think its only UK that does that .... think again ... I've watched recently Swedish boats rise 30 ... 40 ... 50% on price ... (small to medium size)
 
westernman said:
Correct.
So when launching, have it put in the water but still in the travel hoist straps.
Take a look around before deciding whether to lift it up again or not.
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My Tallinn Race boat needed holding in slings for about 3+hrs with a pump on board as well ....

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The wood hull .. strakes would dry during winter and open up ....

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The OP has not said if it is a MOBO or sailing boat. We can assume it is not wood, else it will sink for sure.
No idea if it will float. The posts above give ideas of what to look for.
But in any event the owner wants shot of it. He is stuck with it. Work on that.
If the OP decides to buy then tell the owner he will take it of his hands for a small fee. Work out what transport will come to. ie £200 then say you will take it away for £ 200. There are loads of old junk about. Just try it on. Give him 2 weeks to think about it then walk away.
 
Refueler said:
I keep an eye on sale sites and what I see are asking prices going up greater than usual seasonal variations ....

The problem is, as I see it, someone has a boat X they want to sell ... they regard it as above average condition ... they search the web seeing what other boat X's are set at ... they set their price at that or slightly higher ..
Before long - you have a 10K boat ... asking 15K ... and so on.

Lockdown boats ?? Think that has 'sailed' ... forgive the pun. I see a resurgence of boat sales as people can now travel to view ... I already know of a number of boats taken off market and then shortly after resubmitted with higher price tag

If you think its only UK that does that .... think again ... I've watched recently Swedish boats rise 30 ... 40 ... 50% on price ... (small to medium size)
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Not sure if this is true.
People can now travel abroad on holidays. They don't need a money pit sitting doing nothing.
 
You have to use some common sense. consider the points where water can enter. there are not too many. check these. then either get a surveyor to carry out an inspection or use your gut feeling , If it sinks you will be liable for its recovery. to avoid being liable for the cost, you take out insurance.

Its the same principles you use to determine if your car gets from A to B. Of course no matter what you do or how much you spend your car may just break down and your boat might just sink. Its about reducing the risks.

Steveeasy
 
NingNong247 said:
Is there no real possibility of tiny hairline fractures that let water in? I've never had a fibreglass boat before, don't really know what a leaky one looks like.
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I've only had my boat a couple of years, but when I was lifted back into the water after replacing some seacocks the boatyard staff prompted me to go in and check them before releasing me from the crane. In fact there was a trickle from one of the seacocks I replaced and I had to be pulled out again and redo it. You lift the cabin sole and check to see if water's coming in anywhere.

I wouldn't expect a hairline crack all the way through a glassfibre boat that would let in water - that sounds like it would compromise the whole structure of the boat, rather than just allowing a little water in. It's just not the way glassfibre works - such a crack would be the result of a massive smash.

But if there's a tiny amount of water coming into the boat and it's so little that you can't see where it's coming from then it's probably not a problem. You sponge it out once a week until you figure out the source.
 
38mess said:
Lockdown boats maybe?
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Not sure, but everything on the market seems to shift in no time at all. Sold my own boat near the end of the season, took 2 weeks. Some friends sold a Bav 36 3 hours after the advert went live. Boat next to ours was also sold in a few weeks. I think Brexit, and the added costs of bringing a boat over from the EU has created a bit of a shortage of used boats.
 
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Current 'owner' of boat has it on land he aquired and knows nothing about it.
So, unlikely a Marina and probably needs transport to water? it would help if the OP told us the size and possible weight. If he has a name/type, then the web will give details .
Or post a photo.
We lifted a 20ft from chocks onto a trailer, using 'acros' and cross tubes, 5 ton ratchet straps with 'come alongs' and small chain hoists. Any bigger than that and probably a crane is required, so costs start rising.
If it is already on a trailer, bonus., if roadworthy...
As to will it float, covered by posters already.
 
NingNong247 said:
I've been offered a cheap boat. It's on a hard standing. The owner knows nothing about it - it came with the property after the guy died, he just wants rid, so that's why the price is so low. It looks good, but what steps can I take to be as sure as possible that the thing floats before going to the considerable hassle and expense of buying it and putting it in the water? I see boats on hard standings all the time for sale, people must buy them. How and why do people do that if they're not absolutely sure that the boat floats? The owner of the one in question has been assured it floats, but ultimately he's not willing to promise it since he hasn't seen it in the water either.

Bonus question: What happens when a boat sinks, legally? Do I get a big bill for the cleanup?
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No offence, but from your other posts you have no idea what a cheap boat is; even comparing it to the price of advertised boats is meaningless without knowledge of the condition, level of equipment, location etc. If it's a common type of mass-produced GRP boat then it's a good bet it will float or need not much work to ensure it floats. A survey won't guarantee it will float but will reduce the uncertainty about whether it will float, particularly for the inexperienced boatbuyer.

If your boat is insured the insurance company get to worry about that; if not it remains your problem, which may be expensive & litigious if you're in a harbour or marina when it sinks. At sea it just sinks, no one (yet) bothers much about wrecks.

You'll stand a better chance of getting more specific help if you can tell us more about the boat or show some pictures.
 
@NingNong247 if you don't mind me asking, what's your budget and location?

I ask because a cruising mate of mine is trying to sell his Island Packet 35, which is in Martinique. He needs to head back to Oz for bureaucratic reasons, something to do with his entitlement to his pension. He tells me his Island Packet has the lowest asking price of all IPs on the market. If you're interested, DM me and I'll give you his email and WhatsApp number.
 
There are books on how to survey your own boat but from your questions on here you seem somewhat inexperienced

You really need to find someone who knows about boats with no skin in the game to come and look with you and give advice. If they see nothing wrong then you can take the risk of paying for a survey, which will almost certainly be required for insurance anyway and that will ultimately tell you if its a good buy. A survey may cost a few hundred pounds hence see if a knowledgeable person will pre-vet it before sending the money on an obvious non starer
 
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