How could RYA training be improved?

capnsensible said:
Perhaps if you looked at the two different course syllabus requirements you will see they are nothing like identical.
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As I said above, I did look and the CS is a SUBset of the DS sylabus. I also said above that I have completed both.

From the RYA website:
Day SkipperCoastal Skipper
Preparation for seaPreparation for sea
yacht handling under powerYacht handling under power
yacht handling under sailYacht handling under sail
emergency situationsEmergency situations
pilotagePilotage
passage makingPassage making and ability as skipper
-Passage planning
-Adverse weather conditions
deck work-
navigation-
meteorology-
rules of the road-
maintenance and repair work-
engines-
victualling-
night cruising-
 
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lustyd said:
Yes, but not the Coastal Skipper course, which is to all intents and purposes identical to the Day Skipper course. It doesn't really bother me that much, but when someone asks what can be improved it's a very obvious example. Personally I did both DS and CS and was disapointed to be given the exact same content and training on both. I got a week of sailing out of it, but that doesn't justify a course since I could just as easily have done a week of sailing with the same instructor as a charter. I learned far more when I sailed up the Irish sea with the instructor from DS in October on a "pleasure sail" on his own boat a few months later. One of the things I learned was not to trust an instructor to navigate to a pub in Holyhead!
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Top tip. If you are private sailing rather than commercial, always keep some arrival tins of your fave wet in the fridge. This is important if you arrive in Madeira, the qr code reader is broken, you have to WhatsApp piccies to the health authority and stay quarantined overnight on board.
I'm teaching a Coastal theory course at the end of March and I will use my recent experience to reinforce a learning point. :)
 
I'd like to add that if you're not interested in how people think RYA could improve and become more relevant, don't join and read a thread on that subject.
 
Not sure how to contribute to this as it’s now coming on for 20 years since I went on an RYA course (Safety Boat at Plas Menai) which I found excellent, if rather cold ( it was January with snow on Snowdonia and the water in the straits was freezing).
But a couple of observations.
To those who think that sextant use is obsolete a should be dropped, my view is that seawater and electronics aren’t’and never have been compatible and on an ocean crossing the back-up of sextant should be thought of as a piece of safety kit, therefore it’s use should still be covered for the YMO.
Same I think stands for paper chart work, electronics are great until they pack up (not unknown) we had a massive electrical failure a few years backs about 6 hours out of Arklow on the way back to Aberaeron in relatively poor visibility, no gps, no log no depth sounder etc. On longer trips I maintain DR on paper charts so had a good idea of our position when the power failed , went fully on to paper charts, for the next 8 hours using ‘beer can ‘ navigation until we could get a fix from the land ahead when we confirmed we were about 1/4 mile North of where my DR had put us.(and no I don’t have a ‘smart phone, so couldn’t use a navigation app).
Perhaps I have been lucky but I have always had excellent tutors on all the courses I have attended,(theory from C/C through to YMO, these were almost 50 years ago, but I don’t see any reason why the quality of teaching should have changed, though with new additions to the curriculum . I only attended one practical course before my YM exam and soon found some of the ‘bad habits’ I had acquired which needed ironing out as well as picking up a whole shed load o& useful additional knowledge, sufficient for me to acquire my YM offshore
I am sure that there are cases of poor tuition, possibly irrelevant subjects and uneven assessments but these can all be found in any educational system, and in general looking back on things I would suggest that the RYA training s pretty good but as with most structures could survive a bit of ‘tweaking’.
 
lustyd said:
I'd like to add that if you're not interested in how people think RYA could improve and become more relevant, don't join and read a thread on that subject.
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Of course I am. I got lots of ideas. However I have been inside it for 25 years and like to help people with their misconceptions.

This thread proves that what many people think are wrong aren't actually wrong at all. Perhaps their publicity people need shaking up rather than the courses. Whose content is easily found on their website.
 
Having redone my dayskipper theory and done coastal skipper theory and day skipper practical in the last year I would say I'm pretty happy with the system.
Only thing I would be tempted to change would be to make having a day shipper theory mandatory before doing the practical. Even if this is just an exam rather than the whole course.
I think standards of practical course vary dramatically as I've met people with dayskipper and I wouldn't trust them to open a tin of beans let alone go out in a yacht. Not sure what the answer is on that one though...
 
capnsensible said:
There is no getting around the fact that they are different courses for very different levels of experience.
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Well that's not really how they are marketed or delivered so perhaps the RYA ought to pay more attention to feedback such as this thread. As an instructor with a vested interest perhaps you could listen and pass it on to your superiors?
 
lustyd said:
Well that's not really how they are marketed or delivered so perhaps the RYA ought to pay more attention to feedback such as this thread. As an instructor with a vested interest perhaps you could listen and pass it on to your superiors?
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Indeed Instructor feedback is listened to and acted on....as well as customer complaints.

It does appear though that you may have misunderstood the course content. Can you point out where tyou think it's wrong?
 
capnsensible said:
Of course I am. I got lots of ideas. However I have been inside it for 25 years and like to help people with their misconceptions.

This thread proves that what many people think are wrong aren't actually wrong at all. Perhaps their publicity people need shaking up rather than the courses. Whose content is easily found on their website.
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The content I quoted above. That reflects everything I've said on this thread. That you're choosing to insult me rather than listen to. You're a smashing RYA ambassador!
 
lustyd said:
The content I quoted above. That reflects everything I've said on this thread. That you're choosing to insult me rather than listen to. You're a smashing RYA ambassador!
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I think it's more that you are taking offence rather than establishing how different the two courses are.
 
capnsensible said:
I think it's more that you are taking offence rather than establishing how different the two courses are.
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No, I showed how the RYA descibe them (basically the same) and described my lived experience as a customer (they were IDENTICAL).

If you're not even willing to consider feedback then you should probably leave the thread. If someone in my team represented our organisation like this on a public forum they'd be speaking to HR.
 
Gixer said:
So you know what needs to be understood before and not wasting your time and theirs.
You can't pass your car driving practical without doing the theory first. Driving test: cars
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You’re not wasting their time, you’re paying for it. The driving test is a test, this is the equivalent of one driving lesson.
 
I would have greater emphasis on three aspects
- learning attitude. Nobody should qualify as skipper who demonstrates any ego as regards willingness to learn new skills. If you're not learning you're a liability, and this is a lifelong requirement.
- crewing prowess. I am often astonished how many CS and YMs I sail with have only the most basic grasp how to use a winch effectively; how to tie and use a rolling hitch. You can't be a YachtMaster until you're also a Crewing Master
- sailing ability. I agree with comments above - anyone bandying a skippers' ticket, especially at YM level, should be a competent helm including downwind in F6, and should be able to trim a sail unsupervised
 
lustyd said:
No, I showed how the RYA descibe them (basically the same) and described my lived experience as a customer (they were IDENTICAL).

If you're not even willing to consider feedback then you should probably leave the thread. If someone in my team represented our organisation like this on a public forum they'd be speaking to HR.
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They are not identical. That's the fact. You have moved this beyond feedback. :rolleyes:

Repeatedly claiming the same thing without a bit of basic research or listening to experience doesn't develop a thread.
I can give you the log book page references if it will help you.
 
RJJ said:
learning attitude. Nobody should qualify as skipper who demonstrates any ego as regards willingness to learn new skills. If you're not learning you're a liability, and this is a lifelong requirement.
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Or as an instructor!!
 
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lustyd said:
No, I showed how the RYA descibe them (basically the same) and described my lived experience as a customer (they were IDENTICAL).
Click to expand...

My very recent experience is that the Coastal Skipper theory was much more advanced than the Day Skipper theory but the practical seemed to be very similar except the Coastal had a lot more night hours of sailing.
 
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