How close is too close ?

[ QUOTE ]
I need to maintain 20 to 25 knots in order to be manoeuvrable

[/ QUOTE ]If that is the case I suggest you go find a MoBo school and take some lessons, either that or give up "boating" and take up knitting. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
 
Stay as far away as possible. Pass astern if possible. Stay on the plane. Going to speeds under plane causes more wash.

There are many more basic rules, though you tend to learn them by being out on water, rather than reading about them. typically
 
On the Red Funnel to East Cowes a few weeks ago, the day after the Round The Island.
Lots of Yachts returning back to Southampton.
Outside having a fag break with SWMBO ,says to Her--"These Raggies know what they are doing" as everybody seemed to be behaving properly and the Ferry seemed to have no prob missing all the Cloth.
Returning back 4 days later.
Not as busy but still quite a few mobos and raggies knocking about (cripes it is a busy place compared to My kneck of the woods) Outside again (fag break)! Ferry had just altered to starboard after leaving Cowes 1 and 2 and was heading towards the point were He would be making a turn to Port (St Catherines? excuse but I forget now) anyway a Yacht was approaching on His nose a bit to His starboard, "Bloody Nora" I said to swmbo "He,s a bit close" twas not a tiny thing, about 7 on board, I reckon, maybe 42 ft ish, all decked out in proper clobber, serious looking Raggies I thought.
Cripes! the Yacht suddenly turns to His starboard right across the Ferry's path!
She is now broadside on to the Ferry!
Ferry gives it loads to starboard, Yacht does a U turn to Port! Foresail flapping , Main still full, Ferry gives 5 blasts, alarms (for crew members presumabley, like action sations) Yacht clips the Ferry's stern I reckon, (couldn't see from the Front End, Passengers where Aghast!, Ferry gives one blast, still Raggies milling about in His way!
Couldn't believe it!
There was loads of water for the Yachts, why where they in the Ferry's way?
"Vessel Restricted in it's ablity to manouver, constrained by draught etc etc?"
I thought the Red Funnel Man was Spot On.
He made the best of it.
Proper Blasts and quick thinking , else there might have been two Yachts gone that Day!
If I hadn't seen it with My own eyes I would not have believed the behaviour of those Yachtsmen that Day!
Incredible stupidity.
 
You sound pretty perfect to me. It's a bit difficult to talk about particular speeds as wash varies from boat to boat and speed to speed. But its fairly simple to see what your wash to doing to others and think it through. When the winds are light, there is nothing more frustrating than a big wash throwing the boat about and taking the drive from the sails.

As to the unpredictable changes of course, its difficult in a post to cover all eventualities but I suppose the two major ones are that no sailing boat can sail directly into the wind. Therefore if you stand facing directly into the wind and draw an imaginary line 45 degrees to the left and 45 degress to the right, then you will have a no go area in front of you into which a sail boat cannot progress by sails alone. Now some boats may be able to better the 45 degree angle and some - oh the shame of it - won't do as go as 45 degrees. The answer for a sail boat is to sail (close hauled is the term) as close to that angle as possible. You can detect this by the fact that the sails are kept as close to the centre line of the boat as possible. When you have gone as far as you want/can/need on that 'tack', the boat direction is altered (the boat is tacked) by turning into the wind until the sails draw and power the baot from the other direction. There is a major problem in giving advice on when a boat is going to tack. It is probably easy if a boat is going up a channel, when it will be forced to tack by the shallows at either side of the channel. But free of those constraints, the boat will be tacked according to where the skipper is trying to get to.

The other major issue is running down wind - wind coming from behind the boat. If the wind is coming from directly behind, the mainsail (large one with the spar underneath it) will be out almost at right angles to the boat. The issue here is the 'gybe'. The sail has to be out one side or the other. If it is out to port, the wind is coming from over the starboard rear of the sailboat. But if this is only just to starboard, then the sail baot is vulnerable to a gybe where the wind shifts to the other side of the centre line and this causes the mainsail to move quickly from the port side of the boat to the starboard. You don't want to do this without being in control. If you do, there is a chance of sweeping a crew member overboard or bashing one on the head (with potentially fatal consequences) - if they happen to be in the way, or even bringing the mast down as the sail and spar (the boom) reach the maximum point of travel with a violent crash. The aim is for the skipper to deliberately gybe the boat where everything is under control. This though can involve a change in course which seems illogical to the motor boat. Again is there a channel causing this change in course. One of the things that can cause an uncontrolled gybe is wash (or indeed natural wave motion). This can get hold of the stern of a sailing vessel and move it temporarily to one side promoting the unexpected and uncontrolled gybe. Expect the sail boat skipper to be lumpy about this.

Of course all these things are affected by wind strength, experience of the crew etc. I would perhaps add that when a sailing boat is trying to make progress to windward, they are effectively trying to squeeze maximum performance out of the boat in making progress to a destination which is upwind. To have to turn away from that progress to windward to go round a motor boat is enormously frustrating and involves a loss of progress made good than can take quite a time to recover.

I'll sure there are other useful points but if you carry on with your current attitude and try to bear these things in mind, you will be very popular.

And a word from the other side of the coin from having been on my neighbours motor boat with twin outdrives - it don't steer. Bring the speed down to 3 knots and the stern hunts from side to side. And then when you take it out of gear, you have no steering. Not poor steering boys and girls- none at all, thnere are no rudders. Tried to get to a windward hammerhead last week and but for the sailboat crew to help we would never have made it!
 
I was swinging round my mooring off Hardway yesterday doing some maintenance when some bright spark in what looked like a Fairline thirtysomething, blue hull, went up past, just outside the outer line of moorings - I reckon he was doing his 10 (allowed) knots but had no idea how much wash he was creating - or maybe he did and wasn't bothered - don't these cretins realise that at 10 knots these wretched boats suck there sterns right down and make more wash than an aircraft carrier? What a tosser! Is it any wonder sailing people look down their noses at motor boat people. I've got both and often wave hello to yachts in the small boat channel when I'm on my sports fisherman, just to see how desperate they are to studiously ignore you - great fun. When I'm on my yacht I ignore all motorboaters whether they wave or not - few small pleasures left in life!
 
Kingsley. Drop a line to QHM - I did recently and he's quite on side but we need to present evidence. My mooring is further upstream (on a mid-stream pontoon) and we are heartily sick of being thrown around against the pontoon and jerking against the warps. Worst culprits seem to be RIBs (surprise surprise!) and the sport fishing cruisers circa 20-26 ft which create inordinate wash and are positively rude and/or abusive when asked to slow down I don't doubt that they're under the speed limit, but there is also a Harbour Byelaw which requires them to navigate in such a manner as not to cause a nuisance to others. QHM has stated that if complaints are reported to his staff as incidents occur (VHF or phone) he will have people intercept the miscreants assuming resources are available. As many incidents are at weekends, I would assume that the Volunteer Harbour Patrol would be tasked. Let's not let it drop.
 
Alas I was at the wrong angle to read his stern. Maybe those jet ski harbour patrol people someone else was complaining about could be gainfully employed slowing people down. I promise that when I'm out in my sports fisherman, which I keep at Haslar, I potter out in the queue at the pace of the slowest! These people are an awful nuisance though .... that tosser in his Fairline yesterday was only one of many .... I agree with you about rib drivers - the trouble is anyone can go out and buy one and launch and race about in the thing anywhere they like - maybe the harbour people should have authority to confiscate the things and crush them!
 
[ QUOTE ]


I need to maintain 20 to 25 knots in order to be manoeuvrable unquote]

Sounds like you are the sort of plonker that gets you mobo's a bad name with the sailing freternity!! Just as well your not up here on the Clyde as you would get eaten for breakfast!!!!!!!!!

Paul
 
Being further upstream, it's the Fareham based boats that are the nuisance. I've heard various 'solutions' being discussed - none of them legal..... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Thank you tillergirl - your reply is really useful and pitched at just the right level for me! I'll take on board your info and watch the sails round Plymouth with interest next time. I'm looking forward to it being demystified /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Hi Anne,

the easy answer is to just watch what effect your wake is having and adjust accordingly. If you cause the sails to flap about or the boom to swing then you have caused an inconvenience (they are more likely to do this in light winds). A bit of pitching is ok but causing the bow to crash down on the other side of your wake isnt. Also be more careful if there is a crew member standing on the deck as he is especially vulnerable to wake (they will usually stop what they are doing and hang on at the slightest disturbance). To be honest though, it sounds like you are doing plenty.

As for predicting sail boats, if they look like they are about to sail into danger then expect a sudden 90 degree turn otherwise it is their duty to maintain their course while you overtake (not that they all do of course).
 
It's fairly easy to see if a pass has been too fast/close. Simply look over your shoulder. If everyone is waving angrily or falling over you were too close/ fast.

In time, you will learn to judge your speed & course with consideration for others & be welcome wherever you go. People fishing in very small boats and fleets of Optimists/ Cadets/ Mirrors etc need extra consideration as they are at risk of swamping by dickheads with more power than sense.
 
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