How can you easily identify a narrow channel?

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fireball

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Ok - if your scraping down both sides of the mudbank at the same time then it is narrow ... but .. if leisure vessels (and I believe it is generally leisure vessels where the confusion arises) believe that they are operating within "rule 9" then what are the general guidelines for identifying a narrow channel?

Clearly a narrow channel for a 60' vessel is not always a narrow channel for a 15' launch, but how does the 15' launch know that the 60'er is operating in a narrow channel? I accept there are no hard and fast rules that cover every situation, but there must be a general acceptance of what constitutes a Narrow Channel for the vessels navigating it.

Chi Harbour (and I know the world revolves around the solent ... but technically Chi harbour isn't in the solent ... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ) Office has stated that fairways with swinging moorings constitute a Narrow Channel and those devoid of moorings do not to all vessels.

Using Chi Harbours definition as a guideline a guestimate of the width of the fairway in between moorings in the Itchenor reach is ~100 foot. As this fairway serves Chichester Marina I've taken a guess that a mean size of vessels using the fairway are in the region of 40' ... this gives an approximation of 2.5 x LOA.

I accept that there are other factors that come into account - strong wind and tide always make it more interesting, but I believe a general rule of thumb is needed to make a clearer definition of Narrow Channel.

Taking this to a conclusion would indicate that any stretch of water whose width is less than or equal to 2.5 x LOA would constitute a Narrow Channel for that vessel, thus enabling other water users to judge more easily if a vessel is expecting to operate under rule 9 and give way accordingly.


Does that seem like a reasonable conclusion from the assumptions made?
 

andyball

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way too easy yes

but I'd add that if in one of them flighty RS400's one should treat every channel as narrow & give way to everything else.
 

fireball

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*cough* ... my other boat is an RS400 ... and I don't tend to get into situations where I'm reliant on non-racing boats to give way ... especially when the kite is up and I'm doing 15-20 knots in the harbour!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 

fireball

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Ok - so not many are disagreeing with the suggested rule of thumb ... so lets make it an anonymous vote then ...
 

Cornishman

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No speed limits in your harbour then? Do speeds like that in Plymouth Sound and you will have MoD Plod after you in a hi speed launch in no time plus a visit to the magistrates next Monday morn.
 

fireball

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There are speed limits - but for power driven vessels ... currently any vessel propelled by the wind doesn't have a speed limit. However, there is policy that those fast asymmetrics shall be the give way vessel - this is because their course changes are rapid and happen often with the wind gusts meaning it is impossible for the other vessels to predict their course and therefore give way.
 

fireball

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Well - for some of the MABs the amount of leeway they suffer from they might as well be travelling sideways!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif As for Cats/Tri's well - I don't know ... how manouverable is a Cat/Tri under power?
 

KenMcCulloch

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An alternative formulation would be to say that a narrow channel exists when the vessel in question cannot turn and reverse her course without either risking grounding or obstructing the passage of a similar sized vessel on a reciprocal course. The logic being that while a fin-keeled sailing yacht or a small power boat might well be expected to be able to turn in a very small space, certainly not more than 2x LOA, some other vessels will need more room.
 

fireball

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In a Fin keel: With a load of shunting about I can turn 180 in my boat length ...

At 4 knots it's probably about 2xLOA

At 6 knots is's probably closer to 4xLOA ...

I would think that twin engine boats have similar capability if not better

So in applying that logic you have to guess what the other boats capability is - and even more so, the capability of the other skipper who may not know how to turn the boat around so tightly. That then becomes impossible to judge unless you know the skipper.
 

benjenbav

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I thought the reason the speed limit didn't apply to fast sailboats was because the HM worked on an average speed: 20 knots with the kite up then 0 whilst uncapsizing /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

DAKA

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[ QUOTE ]
where's Daka's post gone then ??

[/ QUOTE ]

I deleted it and sent a pm to fireball explaining why.
I thought I best stay out of it in retrospect.

Despite some recent posts I am very keen to learn how to avoid the silly sods hitting me.
So I thought it best to stay clear, read and learn /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

fireball

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/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif sorry - the average speed only really applies to those at the back of the fleet - us at the front have an anti-capsise sense .... mine failed the other week though /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif still - the kite wasn't up at the time so didn't need to sort that one out...

As a general rule of thumb - if you can see one person in the boat and he has a main and kite (no jib) then keep well clear - cos he's not really in control ... he's in his natural state of "not quite capsised yet" ... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

fireball

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Yup - perfectly safe !! Most of the crew on these boats could gybe, drop the kite, do a 180 and be off the otherway before you've identified a collision risk ... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

fireball

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Oh - and I know of one crew who deliberately capsised his RS800 whilst flying the kite and twin wiring because he knew he wouldn't get a gybe in before he hit the sandbank ... he (the crew) just stood up and walked into the boat .... capsised, dropped the kite, the helm righted the boat, climbed back in, popped the kite up and shot off again ...
 
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