rickp
Well-Known Member
Those who are busy saving now must be kicking themselves that they'll miss red diesel.....
Rick
Rick
How can you afford to Borrow money for a boat ?
- Thread starter DAKA
- Start date
hlb
RIP
You all seem to have the wrong idea. I save money all the time, then just buy what I want, I dont have to wait ten years for it. But I buy what I can easily afford, if it breaks, I mend it. If it needs diesel. I fill it.
Having a morgage on a house is different. Thats appreciating. But even then, for me it has to be very affordable. Things do go tits up from time to time. Jobs come to an end, businesses go out of fashion. I never thought I'd have a divorce after 35 years of Marriage.
Trouble with the borrowing job, is. When things go wrong, you finnish up in a spiral, sell boat quickly, so get much less, so have to sell house, quick, get less. Then have to sell something else and so on.
Having a morgage on a house is different. Thats appreciating. But even then, for me it has to be very affordable. Things do go tits up from time to time. Jobs come to an end, businesses go out of fashion. I never thought I'd have a divorce after 35 years of Marriage.
Trouble with the borrowing job, is. When things go wrong, you finnish up in a spiral, sell boat quickly, so get much less, so have to sell house, quick, get less. Then have to sell something else and so on.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
Must admit that I am impressed / amazed / appalled by the finance figures being flung around in the posts above. All a very different ball game to the one I play, but I am enjoying sitting on the fence, observing, and hopefully learning.
Re my ball game, the boat is paid for (bought as a wreck and restored), mooring is free (we put it down ourselves) and we spend probably about 25 quid a year in diesel (yes, it is a raggie), but she keeps me busy and out of trouble!
I didnt realise that depreciation figures for motor boats in the UK were so high - here we generally consider that if a boat was bought for say 10k, you should be able to sell it in 5 or 10 years for 10k if it has been well looked after.
I am just wondering - when you count up the cost of depreciation, finance and mooring fees, and divide this total by actual usage per year, might it not work out cheaper to just rent a boat occasionally?
(Yes, I know that you cannot put a value on the actual joy to be had from owning a boat as such, and this must be worth quite a lot - but I am just wondering what the panel thinks about this?)
Re my ball game, the boat is paid for (bought as a wreck and restored), mooring is free (we put it down ourselves) and we spend probably about 25 quid a year in diesel (yes, it is a raggie), but she keeps me busy and out of trouble!
I didnt realise that depreciation figures for motor boats in the UK were so high - here we generally consider that if a boat was bought for say 10k, you should be able to sell it in 5 or 10 years for 10k if it has been well looked after.
I am just wondering - when you count up the cost of depreciation, finance and mooring fees, and divide this total by actual usage per year, might it not work out cheaper to just rent a boat occasionally?
(Yes, I know that you cannot put a value on the actual joy to be had from owning a boat as such, and this must be worth quite a lot - but I am just wondering what the panel thinks about this?)
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I think you are trying to graduate the class prematurely, you are in danger of loosing their concentration by bringing in positive balances.
It has been asked why a boat is more expensive on finance ?
because an extra £10 000 is only another £79 a month /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I will sign off now, I have never been called so many names before /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Plonker
git
old
grumpy
have I missed any ?
It has been asked why a boat is more expensive on finance ?
because an extra £10 000 is only another £79 a month /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I will sign off now, I have never been called so many names before /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Plonker
git
old
grumpy
have I missed any ?
gjgm
Well-Known Member
Just to try to put myself off the idea.. I guesstimated the real cost of £100/125k boat was about £20k a year on the south coast.
So I decided to ignore lots of the numbers- then it was only £10k.
So I decided to ignore lots of the numbers- then it was only £10k.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Luckily I can put the cost of running our boat into just 4 figures ...
which reminds me ... why do Port Solent have 2 diesel pumps if you can only get one vessel in there at a time ... meaning that we had to wait 45 minutes for a stinky to put £400 into his tanks (£200 a side!) .... then we managed to fill up ... all of £8 !! and that'll last us till about August!
which reminds me ... why do Port Solent have 2 diesel pumps if you can only get one vessel in there at a time ... meaning that we had to wait 45 minutes for a stinky to put £400 into his tanks (£200 a side!) .... then we managed to fill up ... all of £8 !! and that'll last us till about August!
temptress
Well-Known Member
ince when has buying a boat ever been about finance? If you lok at how much a boat costs you (Cash or otherwise) then it makes no financial sense to have one. BUT this never seems to stop us..............
Just to add to the argument - I bought my first boat cash, second on finance and current one with cash again....... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Just to add to the argument - I bought my first boat cash, second on finance and current one with cash again....... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Even if you pay cash it is costing you 4% per year in lost interest.
Even more if you think you could have bought a house oop north, and rented it out. Your £125k would then be going up by what, 4% a year for the bricks an mortar plus 5% per year rental income? So now you are loosing 9% per year. My last marine mortage was done at 1.32% over bank rate, so currently about 6.7% apr (though was lower when I took it out).
Even more if you think you could have bought a house oop north, and rented it out. Your £125k would then be going up by what, 4% a year for the bricks an mortar plus 5% per year rental income? So now you are loosing 9% per year. My last marine mortage was done at 1.32% over bank rate, so currently about 6.7% apr (though was lower when I took it out).
AdeOlly
Well-Known Member
Even if you have the cash it's not that simple. I'm lucky enough to be able to write a cheque for this £125k boat, but I never would as money makes money, so I'm always looking for the next business opportunity, and these generally require hard cash. The cash that these ventures spin off is used to pay the finance on the luxuries.
BTW - I'm currently bored of the media industry; anyone selling a boat brokerage or dealership PM me.
BTW - I'm currently bored of the media industry; anyone selling a boat brokerage or dealership PM me.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I am just wondering - when you count up the cost of depreciation, finance and mooring fees, and divide this total by actual usage per year, might it not work out cheaper to just rent a boat occasionally?
(Yes, I know that you cannot put a value on the actual joy to be had from owning a boat as such, and this must be worth quite a lot - but I am just wondering what the panel thinks about this?)
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're absolutely right.
For the average users of pleasure boats (not liveaboard or any other people lucky enough to have a lot of time to spend onboard), renting would be a very sensible option from the economic viewpoint.
It is mainly on the basis of other factors - as you also point out - that most people prefer to have their own pride and joy.
I am just wondering - when you count up the cost of depreciation, finance and mooring fees, and divide this total by actual usage per year, might it not work out cheaper to just rent a boat occasionally?
(Yes, I know that you cannot put a value on the actual joy to be had from owning a boat as such, and this must be worth quite a lot - but I am just wondering what the panel thinks about this?)
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're absolutely right.
For the average users of pleasure boats (not liveaboard or any other people lucky enough to have a lot of time to spend onboard), renting would be a very sensible option from the economic viewpoint.
It is mainly on the basis of other factors - as you also point out - that most people prefer to have their own pride and joy.
clivew05
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I didnt realise that depreciation figures for motor boats in the UK were so high - here we generally consider that if a boat was bought for say 10k, you should be able to sell it in 5 or 10 years for 10k if it has been well looked after.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well not all MB's depreciate expecially if you find one thats looked after - I have only been looking and owning a boat for 2 years - I bought my first a couple of years ago for £39,950, I got £42,000 for her 7 months later and bought my present boat for £99,500 a splendid well looked after craft - looking round on the internet - I see the same boat (a year newer though ) well 3 of the same boat (bearing in mind that Hardy only made 20 of these boats in total as well priced at the £125,000 + mark so mine should easily sell for the same as I bought her .... and I have now put right the few little cosmetic areas that needed fixing tooo.
Just to note that the people that bought my first boat have now upgraded also and have sold her for (yes you guessed it ) £39,950 same as I bought her two years ago ... and only took 2 months to sell her too .....
So I think the depreciation is not a general thing with boats and looking and asking around - they generally (pre owned that is ) hold their value for years.
So not all doom and gloom and depreciation and woh is me finances - some just like houses gain money (or rather stay at the same value when others depreciate) netting you a essential profit .... especially when you have paid a lot of that niggling finance off too .... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I didnt realise that depreciation figures for motor boats in the UK were so high - here we generally consider that if a boat was bought for say 10k, you should be able to sell it in 5 or 10 years for 10k if it has been well looked after.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well not all MB's depreciate expecially if you find one thats looked after - I have only been looking and owning a boat for 2 years - I bought my first a couple of years ago for £39,950, I got £42,000 for her 7 months later and bought my present boat for £99,500 a splendid well looked after craft - looking round on the internet - I see the same boat (a year newer though ) well 3 of the same boat (bearing in mind that Hardy only made 20 of these boats in total as well priced at the £125,000 + mark so mine should easily sell for the same as I bought her .... and I have now put right the few little cosmetic areas that needed fixing tooo.
Just to note that the people that bought my first boat have now upgraded also and have sold her for (yes you guessed it ) £39,950 same as I bought her two years ago ... and only took 2 months to sell her too .....
So I think the depreciation is not a general thing with boats and looking and asking around - they generally (pre owned that is ) hold their value for years.
So not all doom and gloom and depreciation and woh is me finances - some just like houses gain money (or rather stay at the same value when others depreciate) netting you a essential profit .... especially when you have paid a lot of that niggling finance off too .... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nat
Well-Known Member
I think you have summed it it up very simply and so very very true. I do things similar to you.
regards Nat.
regards Nat.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
yes , but borrowing gives you gearing upwards too... that its value.
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
A few years ago there was no hope of me ever buying a boat over 100k, then my wife left me and now I am in a position to do just that, so forget the banks and finance and get yourself a semi-single life it costs a lot less !.
Micky
Well-Known Member
I think we have been here before.
I also agree that cash is the best way to go. Everything i own is mine, bought and paid for. No Mortgage, No tick, and retired at 55 with a reasonable monthly income. All down to luck and hard work in my younger days and dealing with cash in the motor trade and stashing away for a rainy day.
My first house cost £16,000 cash, sold for £128,000 and my existing one cost me £33,000 cash, now worth over £100,000.
OK, my home and boat are far from fit for the royalty but then neither is my car which is new, and i replace that every two years.
I love the feel of real pound notes in my pocket and also like the feeling that blowing a £100/£200 quid on a trip out is pea-nuts, plenty more where that came from.
OK, i could go out and buy a new boat, or a bigger house, but what's the point, if the boat i own sinks, tough luck I'll find another, but at the moment it's floating and i catch fish off it.
My house is small, but there's only two of us live in it, so plenty big enough.
Freedom is my motto, BORROW NOTHING, OWE NOTHING, LEND NOTHING.
I also agree that cash is the best way to go. Everything i own is mine, bought and paid for. No Mortgage, No tick, and retired at 55 with a reasonable monthly income. All down to luck and hard work in my younger days and dealing with cash in the motor trade and stashing away for a rainy day.
My first house cost £16,000 cash, sold for £128,000 and my existing one cost me £33,000 cash, now worth over £100,000.
OK, my home and boat are far from fit for the royalty but then neither is my car which is new, and i replace that every two years.
I love the feel of real pound notes in my pocket and also like the feeling that blowing a £100/£200 quid on a trip out is pea-nuts, plenty more where that came from.
OK, i could go out and buy a new boat, or a bigger house, but what's the point, if the boat i own sinks, tough luck I'll find another, but at the moment it's floating and i catch fish off it.
My house is small, but there's only two of us live in it, so plenty big enough.
Freedom is my motto, BORROW NOTHING, OWE NOTHING, LEND NOTHING.
thailand69
Well-Known Member
Interesting attitudes here.
The answer is I guess, whatever works for the individual.
I am more on the save for something then spend the cash and in the meantime go without or smaller or less of anything.......it is just that I don't like owing anyone (at 10% or 0%)............it doesn't mean I would be living like a monk for 5 years.......but I have never been one who thought that Bling = good / better.
BUT I do appreciate that folk differ and that spending on something like a boat can <u>make</u> you money, just by keeping you sane!! as well as still alive.
But I do struggle with the concept that just because someone can meet the HP payments that any item is therefore "affordable"........stuff like slapping a holiday on a credit card without being able to pay it off is to me just insane.........
The answer is I guess, whatever works for the individual.
I am more on the save for something then spend the cash and in the meantime go without or smaller or less of anything.......it is just that I don't like owing anyone (at 10% or 0%)............it doesn't mean I would be living like a monk for 5 years.......but I have never been one who thought that Bling = good / better.
BUT I do appreciate that folk differ and that spending on something like a boat can <u>make</u> you money, just by keeping you sane!! as well as still alive.
But I do struggle with the concept that just because someone can meet the HP payments that any item is therefore "affordable"........stuff like slapping a holiday on a credit card without being able to pay it off is to me just insane.........
hlb
RIP
The other advantage, is not being beholdent to every wim of the bank, no massaging figures to make profits look bigger than they really are. Just tell them to FO if they get shirty.
I had a smallish mortgage a few years ago. The bank had forgot to charge me for Morgage insurance, so sent a heavy man round. He was there all night. I quietly enjoyed him going through his speel. At the end, he'd say, so now you agree, you need to pay. Quietly I'd reply. Your insurance is no good to me, If I dont pay, it's you that looses money, not me. So you pay. Off he'd go again. So I said, well, I've got more in your bank than I owe in morgage, what better guarentee do you want. Still he went on. But got no where and sodded off. So I got rid of the morgage, I'd forgoten I still had it till this twerp turned up!!
I had a smallish mortgage a few years ago. The bank had forgot to charge me for Morgage insurance, so sent a heavy man round. He was there all night. I quietly enjoyed him going through his speel. At the end, he'd say, so now you agree, you need to pay. Quietly I'd reply. Your insurance is no good to me, If I dont pay, it's you that looses money, not me. So you pay. Off he'd go again. So I said, well, I've got more in your bank than I owe in morgage, what better guarentee do you want. Still he went on. But got no where and sodded off. So I got rid of the morgage, I'd forgoten I still had it till this twerp turned up!!
SilverTT
Well-Known Member
I do agree paying with cash is best. But Cash is king.
If you don't own a boat you could save the finance and all the running costs. But you would spend it on other holidays.
Personnally i bought a boat re-engined it when i should've looked in my crystal ball and wait 2 years. Within that time i could have bought a bavaria with the money i spent on the re-engine project. It came out and i would've bought a new one.
I don't have a mortgage on my boat but it's tempting so i could up grade to a bav.
Problem is i like cash so i don't spend it.
If you don't own a boat you could save the finance and all the running costs. But you would spend it on other holidays.
Personnally i bought a boat re-engined it when i should've looked in my crystal ball and wait 2 years. Within that time i could have bought a bavaria with the money i spent on the re-engine project. It came out and i would've bought a new one.
I don't have a mortgage on my boat but it's tempting so i could up grade to a bav.
Problem is i like cash so i don't spend it.
ari
Well-Known Member
Is'nt arguing over whether borrowing or saving to buy a boat is the most financially prudent a little like arguing over which brand of cigarettes is the most healthy?
Owning a boat is never a sensible financial option, but it's bloody brilliant!
And you're a long time dead (and just as dead if you died with an extra £100K in your bank as a result of not living life to the full).
Cheers. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Owning a boat is never a sensible financial option, but it's bloody brilliant!
And you're a long time dead (and just as dead if you died with an extra £100K in your bank as a result of not living life to the full).
Cheers. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Finally. Can we all move on now?