how can Colregs rule 5 - lookout - be met by solo sailors on long trips?

[Skik op reis]

I have radar alarm, ais, vhf, radar reflector and so on. On long single handed passages I sleep in the cockpit for 20 minutes at a time. Then I check the horizon, the sails, the navigation and go back to sleep. If I meet a Russian shadowfleet tanker, the colregs are the smallest of my problems.
99,9999 % of the traffic is larger than me. So safety matters to me more than regulations. There is a risk involved. I take it. On the road by car my risk is larger. Once I had a friend behind the wheel of my boat who fell asleep. I discovered it as we were approaching Dover...
Frankly spoken I think my solosystem is more safe because my loud alarm sounds every 20 minutes.

 

[potentillaCO32]

I think that's where the type of vessel and number of crew bit comes in

It seems a lot of ships don't bother either. We were sailing from dover to ramsgate when the big border force vessel went past us. Defender is it called?

They radioed us and asked us where we were headed etc.. all good.

As they trundled off they went past an anchored cargo ship in the anchorage, south of ramsgate. They must have called this ship on the radio at least 10 times but no answer. We expected them to get serious and board it but they caried on to ramsgate. By chance we were in the outside visitor berths just by where defender parks. I wandered over and asked why they didnt board her given she clearly didnt have an anchor watch. They said it was a daily occurance.....

 

[Babylon]

It's called MerVeille It was once required for Mini650 boats, maybe still is
Page 1

Indeed the difference is the MerVeille does not enhance the return, it's a simple receiver. It has the four quadrants though, and also a sort of "gain", one can set it more or less sensitive to radar beams.

My boat came with a 1990s version of this called C.A.R.D (Combined Active Radar Detector) which I've never needed in anger as my singlehanded passages have never been longer than say 12-15hrs, but which still works nicely when I've tested it in the Channel. The main use is the alarm to wake up or prompt the singlehander, then the LED lights on eight points of the compass are more than adequate to give a basic sense of where the radar signal is coming from.

C.A.R.D Radar detector review – Ahoy!

 

[seeSimon]

Point 51 says "navigational watch". So it's not saying you don't need to keep a watch, it's saying it doesn't have to be a "navigational watch" which presumably is a different level of manning to an anchor watch.

83 relates to an "engineering" watch.

Neither of these points say you don't need a watch at all times and if they did they still wouldn't trump the IRPCS.

With respect, relating to the above...

Neither STCW nor IMO guidance have anything to do with small private yachts in UK coastal waters...particularly when at anchor... close to shore.

 

[seeSimon]

Read what i asked. Does it apply to non uk flagged boats outside uk waters?

The answer is clearly no.

The MSA applies both to UK registered shipe, wherever in the world they may be, and ALSO to all other ships within UK Territorial Waters.

 

[potentillaCO32]

The MSA applies both to UK registered shipe, wherever in the world they may be, and ALSO to all other ships within UK Territorial Waters.

So doesnt have any jurisdiction over an irish flagged boat outside uk waters.

 

[obmij]

I don't think there is a topic which is more debated, but which has less relevance. It really is angels on the head of a pin stuff.

Non of the competent authorities give two hoots about this - and they never have.

If I posted a video of my breaking 100mph on UK roads, or using my phone whilst driving, I could expect a visit from plod and a prosecution.

Contrast with the multiple single handed voyages which depart every year with national and international sponsors plus live streaming below decks whilst pretty fecking obviously not maintaining a full navigational watch in any way shape or form.

It's a non issue.

Number 1 rule?

Don't crash.

 

[Skik op reis]

I agree.
Moreover, the risk in your traffic examples lies with other road users. When sailing solo, it's your own risk and therefore your own choice. This also applies to dangerous mountain climbs, cliff diving, bungee jumping, etc.

 

[Mark-1]

With respect, relating to the above...

Neither STCW nor IMO guidance have anything to do with small private yachts in UK coastal waters...particularly when at anchor... close to shore.

I didn't post either, someone else did. I was just explaining why they didn't say what the original posters thought they did.

 

[dunedin]

I don't think there is a topic which is more debated, but which has less relevance. It really is angels on the head of a pin stuff.

Non of the competent authorities give two hoots about this - and they never have.

If I posted a video of my breaking 100mph on UK roads, or using my phone whilst driving, I could expect a visit from plod and a prosecution.

Contrast with the multiple single handed voyages which depart every year with national and international sponsors plus live streaming below decks whilst pretty fecking obviously not maintaining a full navigational watch in any way shape or form.

It's a non issue.

Number 1 rule?

Don't crash.

I don’t agree that it is a non issue.
There have been quite a few incidents in recent years of fast single handed race boats crashing into fishing boats and small coasters (or indeed simply sailing full speed onto the shore when asleep).
This is most common with races started in the busy English Channel - or boats transiting these busy areas before or after events.

With race boats now doing 20 knots or more it isn’t a simple matter of “power gives way to sail”. As well as rules when a boat is fishing, at these speeds the single hander is often overtaking the commercial traffic.
So far mostly extensive boat damage rather than lives lost - and warning systems are improving. But a small fishing boat or yacht being hit by a single hander at 20-30 knots won’t end well.

 

[winch2]

As has been said. Those guys who jump off mountains simply cannot have all the i's and t's crossed. Some activities and endeavours are just downright bloody dangerous and sailing off into the yonder by oneself is a good example, even two up isn't much better. I can think of a couple of cross channel trips where ships didnt pick up the phone, or seemed to follow our every move to avoid. The moment you start thinking everyones playing by the rules your gonna come unstuck.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

… pick up the phone … The moment you start thinking everyones playing by the rules your gonna come unstuck.

The USA recommends contacting by VHF, the UK does not recommend contacting by VHF, because it is not reliable.

If you “play by the rules” you won’t become unstuck. Review ColRegs 16 and 17, and understand the 3 phases (some refer to it as 4 phases) to avoid a collision.

 

[NatalieG]

Interesting thread. The legal side of whether Rule 5 can be met solo is well covered here, but there's a dimension that hasn't come up much — what the research actually shows about how quickly fatigue degrades your ability to keep a proper lookout, even when you're technically awake and trying.

Most of the discussion assumes you're either awake and watching, or asleep and not. But it's much more nuanced than that. The studies show that after extended wakefulness, you can be sitting in the cockpit with your eyes open and still miss things right in front of you. Your situational awareness, reaction time and decision-making all degrade well before you actually fall asleep — and the problem is you don't realise it's happening.

We've been researching this area and recently published an open-access review of the literature on fatigue-related maritime incidents. It's directly relevant to this debate because it pulls together the evidence on how sleep deprivation affects the very capabilities Rule 5 demands.

Free to read here: https://doi.org/10.20944/preprints202603.1014.v1 or The Science of Fatigue at Sea — Free Research Paper

I think the honest answer is that almost nobody, solo or crewed, maintains Rule 5 to the letter on multi-day passages. st599's point about the MCA 8-hour limit for coded vessels (#20) is interesting because it's one of the few attempts to put a realistic number on what's actually achievable.

Natalie

 

[obmij]

Interesting thread. The legal side of whether Rule 5 can be met solo is well covered here, but there's a dimension that hasn't come up much — what the research actually shows about how quickly fatigue degrades your ability to keep a proper lookout, even when you're technically awake and trying.

Most of the discussion assumes you're either awake and watching, or asleep and not. But it's much more nuanced than that. The studies show that after extended wakefulness, you can be sitting in the cockpit with your eyes open and still miss things right in front of you. Your situational awareness, reaction time and decision-making all degrade well before you actually fall asleep — and the problem is you don't realise it's happening.

We've been researching this area and recently published an open-access review of the literature on fatigue-related maritime incidents. It's directly relevant to this debate because it pulls together the evidence on how sleep deprivation affects the very capabilities Rule 5 demands.

Free to read here: https://doi.org/10.20944/preprints202603.1014.v1 or The Science of Fatigue at Sea — Free Research Paper

I think the honest answer is that almost nobody, solo or crewed, maintains Rule 5 to the letter on multi-day passages. st599's point about the MCA 8-hour limit for coded vessels (#20) is interesting because it's one of the few attempts to put a realistic number on what's actually achievable.

Natalie

I will have a read of that, looks interesting.

I used to do quite a lot of 2 up sailing and am familiar with the semi hallucinatory waking sleep state. One morning as dawn broke on a fairly brutal early season trip back from the Azores I became convinced that I could see land - well not convinced as I knew it wasn't even remotely possible. Nevertheless I could see it - there was even a castle!

Commercially the biggest killer is the horrible 6/6 watch system. It is legal but it really shouldn't be.

 

[benjenbav]

I will have a read of that, looks interesting.

I used to do quite a lot of 2 up sailing and am familiar with the semi hallucinatory waking sleep state. One morning as dawn broke on a fairly brutal early season trip back from the Azores I became convinced that I could see land - well not convinced as I knew it wasn't even remotely possible. Nevertheless I could see it - there was even a castle!

Commercially the biggest killer is the horrible 6/6 watch system. It is legal but it really shouldn't be.

Take Joshua Slocum as an example. He hallucinated an extra person onboard ‘Spray’on the first Atlantic leg of his solo RTW.

 

[Wansworth]

O coasters we worked a six on six off and normally after one watch off we seemed well rested although the watch ending at six in the morning was sometimes difficult to stay awake.In bad vis or lots of traffic both skipper and mate would be on watch.

 

[newtothis]

Take Joshua Slocum as an example. He hallucinated an extra person onboard ‘Spray’on the first Atlantic leg of his solo RTW.

Didn't he attribute that to some bad fruit he'd been given on departure? I've not read it for a while, but I remember Slocum was quite happy lashing the tiller and sleeping quite a lot.
I crewed on an multi-day ocean race where we did three-on, three-standby (rail meat) and three-off. That averages 7.5 hours sleep each day, which is more than I ever get on land.
Nevertheless, the waves still turned into a landscape of ever rising hills.

 

[Mark-1]

Didn't he attribute that to some bad fruit he'd been given on departure?

Yes he did and it was Christopher Columbus' Pilot IIRC. Or maybe Magellan.

...and like you I sensed he had no qualms about sleeping at all. (Which is fine by me, not much small stuff to hit in those days.)

 

[Wansworth]

Yes he did and it was Christopher Columbus' Pilot IIRC. Or maybe Magellan.

...and like you I sensed he had no qualms about sleeping at all. (Which is fine by me, not much small stuff to hit in those days.)

Pilot of the “Pinta”

 

[arc1]

I will have a read of that, looks interesting.

I used to do quite a lot of 2 up sailing and am familiar with the semi hallucinatory waking sleep state. One morning as dawn broke on a fairly brutal early season trip back from the Azores I became convinced that I could see land - well not convinced as I knew it wasn't even remotely possible. Nevertheless I could see it - there was even a castle!

Commercially the biggest killer is the horrible 6/6 watch system. It is legal but it really shouldn't be.

Submarine fwd watch keeping routine is 6/6. And certain jobs (Navs and Ops Officer amongst them) have significant amounts of work to do in off watch - generally on an SSN Ops officer can't leave the control room during their on watch, so lots of planning/meetings off watch. Dog tired most of the time after a week or so out.