Horseshoe lifebuoy or rescue sling for MOB?

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cmedsailor

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Hello,
Besides the horseshoe lifebuoy with associated floating light to be thrown for “positioning purposes” in case of MOB I would like to buy some MOB recovery system. Should I buy a second horseshoe lifebuoy with 40m floating line or one of these “floating belts”, such as rescue sling that plastimo sells?
What do you have on your boat?
 
Depending on the boat design i would go for (in my case) a loose lifering and danbuoy for initial deployment then a second lifering attached to the boat so mob can pull them selves in after you have gone back to rescue, then some pulley system to get them back up.
 
Have one of each, lifebuoy with light and dan buoy and life sling with about 45 m of floating line. The life sling can be towed under motor around MOB who grabs line and puts sling on and is pulled to the boat ready for hoisting aboard by block and tackle. An extra mainsheet clipped to end of stayed boom works.
I have done hundreds, perhaps thousands of MOB EX with students from Day Skipper to YM and the greatest problem most have is getting alongside MOB. Pulling to boat is easy. Of course MOB has to be able to help which if wearing life Jacket is more likely.
 
Got to agree with Csail. The danbuoy / horseshoe it to provide some immediate buoyancy and a position indicator. The sling is for recovery, and I add a packable MOB ladder as well (one that goes well under the waterline...many are too short). I work on the basis that I'm going to have to climb back on board (90+ kgs wet vs. a 55kg wife!)
 
We have a horseshoe belt attached to a danbuoy as a kind of "first response" kit, backed up with a Kim sling for recovery. Our boat has a sugar scoop which makes recovery a bit easier , provided the casualty can help themselves. Working to worst case scenario i.e. casualty unconscious or otherwise incapacitated we use the Kim sling hooked up to a handy billy on the boom. We decided that there would be too much time lost by unrigging the mainsheet to use as a lifting tackle and in any case we needed to have some control on the boom movement.
It is well worth rehearsing your recovery procedure because what seems like a good idea on paper does not work in practice. For example, we found that our original horseshoe was too narrow to allow a well-built casuality in full oilies (me!) to get it around his body. The boom recovery works well provided that you don't try the lift too soon, with the "body" too far outboard, it pulls the boat over and dunks the casualty. You also need to cock the boom up quite high on the topping lift. The handy billy runs on two double blocks with snap shackles and/or rope tails on each end.
 
For marking the MOB, you shjould consider a danbuoy - sticks up in the water and is a superior means of fixing the victim.

I long ago dumped the horseshoe - who is going to just chuck this into the drink in the hope that the victim will catch it - far better the tethered sling that can be trawled into position, is also adjustable for MOB's of different size, and so will accommodate an inflated lifevest!

For recovery on deck, all the systems have a major limitation in that they come with light line that is almost impossible to grasp and use to lift a weight with water of 80-120kgs. On my boat we can snap off the main sheet and get the action end down to water level real fast, then haul up using the boom of course (another reason for dumping the main ASAP and not sail around in nice circles optimising everything before the poor frightened victim is hauled to safety - give me strength!)

PWG
 
Do not confuse lifebuoys with slings. Buoys cannot lift a person except lightweight child maybe. They are marker / flotation aids only.

As to these fancy Yottie MOB systems - haven't seen one really successful yet. All the ones I've seen fail at the vital stage of getting person out of water.
 
I think the RORC advice is sound.
A lifebuoy with danbuoy, drogue and light goes over the side immediately, to float free. This is required to be immediately deployable by the helmsman.
It provides a reference point for both casualty and yacht, and the victim should be able to swim to the lifebuoy while you turn the yacht around. That's why its imperative its quick to launch.
I see this as the minimum I would want to sail at night with.
A 'Seattle sling' or derivative for recover is a separate item.
 
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I think the RORC advice is sound.
A lifebuoy with danbuoy, drogue and light goes over the side immediately, to float free. This is required to be immediately deployable by the helmsman.
It provides a reference point for both casualty and yacht, and the victim should be able to swim to the lifebuoy while you turn the yacht around. That's why its imperative its quick to launch.
I see this as the minimum I would want to sail at night with.
A 'Seattle sling' or derivative for recover is a separate item.

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This is one area that often confuses newbies to water. Often buoys have long light floating lines ad they expect to nicely keep hold of end and throw buoy in to retrieve MOB.

Nice if you can. But MOB is usually by time buoy is deployed further than the length of the line away.

Next we get to the swimming aspect - this depends as cold water will be changed against the body inside the clothes etc. with action of swimming reducing body temp steadily.

The rope when floating can with the buoy in some circumstances drift or float near to casualty such that he/she can grab one and get buoy to him / her to aid marking location.

Another less voiced use of the rope is the circle manouevre. MOB goes over ... Buoy deployed, hard over helm rope brought round in a part circle as boat turns ... so MOB is somewhere near to it.

Some here may argue or not agree with above - problem is tactics and actions are so varied depending on weather, time between MOB and knowing they're gone over etc. day / night etc.

One thing I would pass on as a tip ... Years ago ships were supplied chemical stick lights to clip onto lifejackets. These were extra to seawater battery lights. Not very bright - but actually effective ... Now you can buy via chandlers or you can buy via fairground / "toy" shops ... anything that aids visibility of the casualty has to be good.
 
If you don't have a ladder, I would put that above everything on your list. There is a general assumption that every MOB will be unable to get themselves back into the boat, I would like to see figures for incapacitated MOB, I wouldn't be surprised to find it was too small to register.

This is not to say that harnesses, cranes, helipads on the foredeck are to be ignored, but Occam's Razor suggests that getting back aboard quickly without having to deploy complicated kit is going to be what we should prioritise.
 
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If you don't have a ladder, I would put that above everything on your list. There is a general assumption that every MOB will be unable to get themselves back into the boat, I would like to see figures for incapacitated MOB, I wouldn't be surprised to find it was too small to register.

This is not to say that harnesses, cranes, helipads on the foredeck are to be ignored, but Occam's Razor suggests that getting back aboard quickly without having to deploy complicated kit is going to be what we should prioritise.

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Having been over 2x myself and the MN Course in Plymouth Sound - I can quote 2 out of 3 occasions I could not get out of the water ... 1 in Bembridge ... other in lake over her. Both in reasonable weather. Even the MN course required assistance from others to board the raft. The other two - I had to be lifted by others - I was numb and couldn't help myself at all.
 
You don't have to spend too long in the North Sea or any UK waters to be incapacitated. Hypothermia is the big bogey. While on safety boat duty in the Medway, we rescued a dinghy sailor who had been the water for around 15 minutes and was in serious trouble, totally incapable of righting the boat and had to be assisted aboard our inflatable. This was in June! Hypothermic casualties are usually pretty helpless.
 
I think dogwatch has a point. Up to now I've restricted my falling in to small keelboats, sonatas and pontoons, and always climbed out unassisted. I would not want to hang around while people organise novelty boarding systems!
I think I'm lucky to have enough strength and anger to shift my 13st when required, despite not being very fit.
One way of getting from the water to the yacht that works for me is to get into the rubber dinghy then climb to the yacht. Obviously most relevant in harbour etc.
A portable ladder that can move to the chains is probably better than a stern ladder at sea. Perhaps.
 
Agreed that easiest way is via the inflatable dinghy ... and best when it's not pumped up hard.
Ladders are too short. I have a 5 rung ladder I can hang anywhere round my hull by virtue of a thick moulded toe-rail. But that's not deep enough once numbness starts. You really need that ladder to be at least as deep in the water as your knees are ...
My boat has two sprung steps on transom - idea being to step onto rudder blade then via the two steps up and over into cockpit. Believe me when I say it's impossible. I tried when I fell in Bembridge Hbr.
The other point of course is ends of a boat are worst places to try and board as they often are pitching and it hurts when you get smacked by all that GRP coming down ! Alongside aft where hull is lowest is good or towards midships ..
 
I don´t know how the idea that a line towed round a casualty is the best way to recover him or her has taken hold, in an age when plenty of people have tried water ski-ing.
The line always follows in the wake of the towing vessel. Why should it "cut the corner" to land in the casualties hand?
And so, If you want him to have a chance of catching it, you have to pass him very close. Hang on! If you wish to recover him, why are you passing him at all! Why not ignore the towed line, get into the same close position, and throw him a piece of rope?
For the chandlers, the answer is obvious, an easy sale in the name of safety has been missed.
 
I find these kind of posts very interesting as, like many,I often sail with a small crew of wife & 13 yr old son and wonder how I would get back on board if I went over. I have never seen this suggested on here before but wonder what people thoughts are.
An instructor I once sailed with suggested that as hypothermia is the one of the biggest dangers in MOB situations a way of gettting the casualty out of the water is to deploy the liferaft. By getting the casualty into the liferaft, you have then bought yourself more time to effect a recovery on to the boat. I would guess that recovery from the liferaft alongside would be easier than direct from the water. Interested in any views
 
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I don´t know how the idea that a line towed round a casualty is the best way to recover him or her has taken hold, in an age when plenty of people have tried water ski-ing.
The line always follows in the wake of the towing vessel. Why should it "cut the corner" to land in the casualties hand?
And so, If you want him to have a chance of catching it, you have to pass him very close. Hang on! If you wish to recover him, why are you passing him at all! Why not ignore the towed line, get into the same close position, and throw him a piece of rope?
For the chandlers, the answer is obvious, an easy sale in the name of safety has been missed.

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Therefore you haven't grasped the essence of the trick. a) The line will not follow the wake because it has the buoy on end that will pull on the line, b) it's not intended ti bring the line to casualty hands - its' to create a curve in the line so that casualty or line drift to each other, c) it's rare that the trick would be used as MOB often happens and you don't know till later ....

As I said before each situation is different and someones method here may not be suitable for your occasion ...
 
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You don't have to spend too long in the North Sea or any UK waters to be incapacitated. Hypothermia is the big bogey. While on safety boat duty in the Medway, we rescued a dinghy sailor who had been the water for around 15 minutes and was in serious trouble, totally incapable of righting the boat and had to be assisted aboard our inflatable. This was in June! Hypothermic casualties are usually pretty helpless.

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That sounds like cold water shock and swim failure - not hypothermia.
 
Does it matter what incapacitates MOB ... thermal shock, Hypothermia - who really cares ... the MOB is basically incapable.... having had it happen to myself and others on the survival course - professionally run as well .... it comes as a mind levelling SHOCK !
 
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