horn mounting Q

vas

vas

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OK, I admit that this must be silliest of my refit queries, but here it goes :p

About to restore my twin horn setup which looks dangerously similar to these:
http://www.vetus-shop.com/vetus-double-trumpet-horn-24v-high-pitch-andamp-low-pitch-p-1586.html

Checking at the Z shaped support with it's two securing holes, I wonder if one is meant to have the 45cm long horn supported on the two screws and keep the end of the horn on the air or bend the Z support a bit so that when fully bolted the end of the horn touches the flat surface it's bolted on.

Horns will fit in the coachroof in a spot that none is normally going to reach/mess about. Horns will be slanted around 10deg downwards so water is not going to remain in them (hopefully)

What does the panel think?
I feel that the supports will let the horns (especially the longer one) vibrate and eventually touch/mess with the coachroof.
Mind atm if I tighten the bolts properly, the end of the horn is level with the mounting surface.

Any ideas?

JFM is not allowed to suggest I buy a K-380 Kahlenberg or something similar cause it's not going to happen - and it's not a space issue got plenty of space for the compressor :p

cheers

V.
 
IF YOU CAN FIND A DOWNWARD SLOPING SURFACE MOUNT THEM THERE, that way any water will run out of them, but in any case they will not last long, we got a plastic £5 maplin one strapped onto the phony chrome one.

AugustRefit017.jpg


It has 6 different sounds so you can amuse yourself.
 
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My Sunline had a similar set-up. The horns were not mounted at an angle, and didn't appear to be wrecked by water, as the natural horn shape makes it unlikely that water will get trapped in the horn. My Snazi has an air horn, and again is mounted horizontally with no apparent problem. it gets most water from the compressor, as this causes water to condensate in the supply tubes.

I think you are free to mount them in a way that best suits you Vas, as long as they don't slope upwards to gather water.
 
Definitely the "bell end" isn't meant to touch the coach roof. :D;)

There's no easy answer on whether it is meant to hang there in free air, because both types exist. My kahlenbergs are fully cantilevered for example...
kahlenberg.jpg


...but the ubiquitous Ongaros http://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/ongar...-horn/p12124?gclid=COnEs5680sECFeXnwgodRogAFQ have a support mid way along the trumpet
12124.jpg

So there is no universal answer. I guess you gotta examine yours and decide what works. If the noise-generating end is heavy, it may be more balanced than you think, and the long trumpet is pretty light isn't it?
 
Rafiki/Omega, AIUI the question is not about what angle to mount them at. It's about whether to cantilever the trumpet or not
 
vas said:
JFM is not allowed to suggest I buy a K-380 Kahlenberg or something similar cause it's not going to happen - and it's not a space issue got plenty of space for the compressor :p
Click to expand...
Well, I understand why you're not willing to hear a suggestion about the PURCHASE of the thing.
I for one wouldn't spend that much for a horn, either - which doesn't mean they aren't worth their price, of course.

Otoh, I suppose you wouldn't mind (since you have space for the compressor! :)), a sample generously offered by some Kahlenberg dealer, in exchange for some marketing in what is possibly the most popular rebuild thread of the whole web!

Just a thought, anyway... :cool:
 
jfm said:
Rafiki/Omega, AIUI the question is not about what angle to mount them at. It's about whether to cantilever the trumpet or not
Click to expand...

Weep, apologies Vas/JFM, didn't read properly, trying to spin too many plates.

Just to confirm, neither my electric horns on previous Rafiki, nor current Snazi has a mid trumpet mount, both mounted at the non "bell end".
 
jfm said:
Definitely the "bell end" isn't meant to touch the coach roof. :D;)

There's no easy answer on whether it is meant to hang there in free air, because both types exist. My kahlenbergs are fully cantilevered for example...
kahlenberg.jpg


I guess you gotta examine yours and decide what works. If the noise-generating end is heavy, it may be more balanced than you think, and the long trumpet is pretty light isn't it?
Click to expand...

thanks John and all other contributors,

this pic of M2 is brilliant, had forgotten about it!

yes system is rather light, did bend the brackets a bit, hold them steady with my fingers, and wobbled the horn end with my finger, it's rather solid, guess if the gap is 10mm it wont touch the coachwork (and anyway I can bend it a bit more if it's needed...)
Securing this thing is another important issue. Coachroof is 12mm ply at that area, so got to carefully aim for a supporting beam (quite close to each other running across every 200mm) to bolt them down securely.

I'm posting a couple of pics I took after a first check and clean/scrape off bits of paint. Will go through the proper polishing another day (got my polishing kit at the boat and haven't managed to visit the boat this week yet :( )

Note there's a rubber grommet like thing on each that implies a support bracket was there originally. Problem is that I don't recall such a thing and had a quick check on pre-rebuilt pics without any luck...

horns_1.jpg


horns_2.jpg


horns_3.jpg


MapisM said:
Well, I understand why you're not willing to hear a suggestion about the PURCHASE of the thing.
I for one wouldn't spend that much for a horn, either - which doesn't mean they aren't worth their price, of course.

Otoh, I suppose you wouldn't mind (since you have space for the compressor! :)), a sample generously offered by some Kahlenberg dealer, in exchange for some marketing in what is possibly the most popular rebuild thread of the whole web!

Just a thought, anyway... :cool:
Click to expand...

I like the way you're thinking P., fully agree about the purchase and worth arguments ;)
All offers happily accepted (within reason!), my PM box is clean ready to receive :D (but by no means was this the point of this thread!)

I do enjoy making good things that I come across (and are functionally adequate) Don't forget that there are almost zero chances of getting into any fog during summer in the Med so use will be for simpler causes...

Got to accept that Kahlenbergs do look the business but changing the gypsy and getting 70m of 10mm chain and a delta/rokna anchor are way higher in my to-do list atm.

cheers

V.
 
Hi V,

An easy cheat to overcome the "to touch, or not to touch" question is to install a small pad/stop under the bell-end of the trumpet on the coach-roof. This will stop the hooter from bending/touching the roof and will also provide a barrier between the the GRP & metal.

On some of our older horns where we used to use 0.8mm spun-brass, we would recommend a horn support if there were higher levels of vibration. But now we've spent the little extra to use 1.0mm spun-brass, it has made the hooter stronger so it doesn't need it, unless the vibration is really bad.

Looking at your horns, the rubber rings are the horn are meant for supports (iirc). Though they are over where the bell-end meets the flute part of the trumpet. This is fairly normal as it is more expensive to create the entire trumpet in one-go / avoiding the join. If you remove them, does it made the horn come apart easier? If not, I'd chuck 'em as they are a tad unsightly (assuming you go with the pad idea).

On the plus side, your diaphragms are mounted on the top of the horn, so should make them less susceptible to corrosion from inhaling salt-spray. A bit of metal polish & elbow grease and they'll come up well.

Toby
 
Thanks Toby,

good news is that rubber rings slide easily back and forth and other than a tiny bit of corrosion under one of them the horn is all in one piece and polishes reasonably well.

Next pic shows the corrosion on the horn where the rubber was:
horns_4.jpg


Following pics are after half an hour worth of polishing, most of the time was spent on the long one. I think that with another hour or so they'll come up nicely:
horns_5.jpg


horns_6.jpg



May fit them over the w/e if weather is kind.

cheers

V.
 
rafiki_ said:
Looking good Vas
Click to expand...

nah, look carp Paul :(

was working on a dimly lit room the day before when I was polishing them.
Today in decent sunshine sat outside at home and tried to do a proper polish. Turns out there are tiny spots all over them that wont polish out :(

Two (or three) options:

  • Pretend they're fine and bolt them on. Anyway will be looking at them from 1.5m min so wont be noticing all the spots (just a few...)
  • remove horns and bell caps and get them polished at the guy who did all the lights and other bits and bobs
  • get new ones...

horns_7.jpg


we shall see. Project postponed for the time.

cheers

V.
 
The spots are tarnishing Vas. Inevitable with the finish you have on the trumpets. As you say, will not normally be visible. The trumpet on my Snazi is white, so no need to polish.
 
rafiki_ said:
The spots are tarnishing Vas. Inevitable with the finish you have on the trumpets. As you say, will not normally be visible. The trumpet on my Snazi is white, so no need to polish.
Click to expand...

Agree P.,

problem is that my presbyopia is still quite low and there's going to be plenty of light when I see them, so fov is going to be large hence such things will be in focus and clearly visible in strong daylight :(
If I did my boating up north, these horns would be fine :p

quick check in ebay shows an identical set for 75quid (but 12V)
FIAMM, Ongaro and others have some half decent solutions for less than 200euro.

V.
 
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