Honda 2.3hp Outboard

[sbrown]

I purchased a brand new Honda 2.3hp four stroke thinking that after all of Honda's years of manufacturing experience this would be the best to go for for my tender, given 2 strokes have been banned.

When it arrived at the start of the season, we filled it with oil and mounted it on the holding bracket on the pushpit of our Dufour 34, where it sat, the weather being so awful over much of the sailing season that we didn't stop in any anchorages but preferred marina hopping. When we went to use it during our summer cruise, it would not start and so we cleaned the spark plugs and tried again. Still nothing so we called out a local Honda dealer, who couldn't get it to start and took it away to his workshop.

When he called, I was horrified to hear that the engine had severe water damage, with corroded pistons. We contacted the dealer we bought the engine from and they commissioned a report, with unsurpringly similar findings of corrosion to the piston heads and scoring (probably caused by the attempts to start the engine). Both engineers concluded the engine must have been submersed to be damaged in that way, but I know for a fact that the engine has not been submersed during my ownership, it being locked on the pushpit holding bracket a good 2m out of the water until we went to use it in the summer.

We contacted Honda, who have basically said there's nothing they can do as they claim no manufacturers fault and the dealer won't do anything because they say it must have been dropped in water.

I wondered if anyone else has encountered similar issues with a Honda 2.3 hp outboard as I am completely puzzled as to how such severe water damage has occurred when the outboard has sat comfortably out of the water, the boat hasn't been overcome by waves and we certainly haven't dropped the outboard in the briney.

Needless to say, I won't be buying another Honda outboard, nor dealing with this particular dealer again, so any suggestions for an outboard that won't pack up from being exposed to a normal British sailing season would be useful (please no 2 stroke suggestions, I'm sore enough already that I can't just go and buy one).

 

[Spyro]

Have you had a bill yet? Just wondering after reading the other thread about outboard servicing how much a call out by an engineer is to a small outboard that you could have taken to a shop yourself?

 

[dylanwinter]

I dropped mine

I dropped one of mine overboard and it went down singing -

it was on the back of a trailer sailer so the kill switch thing was attached to the engine

....so it was my fault

I should have attched it to the bracket

the cylinder filled with water and the con rod punched a hole in the cylinder wall

However, I still liked the engine

it had been really reliable, light enough to carry and cheap to run

so I bought another one

I have a 2.3 I keep on its side in the cockpit locker as an alternative power source

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qki9jz8B2tA

it came to our rescue just this week when the main engine had a small prob

The Honda always starts first or second pull and pushes the 23 footer along really well

never had any dealings with Honda or their agents

do you know anything of the history of the motor before it came to you?

was it prepped by Honda before being dispatched?

How did mailspeed look after it - or did it come straight from a warehouse near felixtowe docks to you?

when we did the outboard tests for PBO some of the packaging on the units did look as though they had a tough life in transit - although the units themselves looked fine

so it is always worth looking at the packaging

any signs of damp on it?

see if it seems the way it was at the factory or if it has been chucked back in the box after being used by some-one else.

Had it ever been used by another customer?

or even an ex demonstrator being sold as new?

I often wonder what happened to the engines PBO had put through their paces

they were unpacked, filled with oil and run at full blatt on my boat and then in a big tank of water for the charging coil checks

they were then put back into the boxes and sent back to the manufacturers

I am always a bit wary of being sold ex demonstrators as new

Dylan


PS I have heard that some people even make films oft hemselves unpacking stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc6gTU6tXyE

 

[Talulah]

No major issues yet with our Honda 2.3HP outboard. It's been mounted on the pushpit for about 3 years. I do have to change the petrol at the start of the season and that's about it. Never had it serviced as I consider that good money towards a new outboard every 5 years.
Having said the above I have noticed corrosion on certain springs etc and have replaced a couple of minor items. i.e When lifting the outboard a bracket springs into place so it stays up. However, corrosion on the spring means I've had to replace it.
Our last outboard was bought from a Honda dealer via ebay.

 

[Ruffles]

When it arrived at the start of the season, we filled it with oil and mounted it on the holding bracket on the pushpit of our Dufour 34, where it sat, the weather being so awful over much of the sailing season that we didn't stop in any anchorages but preferred marina hopping. When we went to use it during our summer cruise, it would not start and so we cleaned the spark plugs and tried again.

Did you actually test the engine after filling with oil?

 

[sbrown]

Did you actually test the engine after filling with oil?

Stupidly not - I didn't think it would be so long from putting the engine on the pushpit bracket to actually having the conditions that would prompt us to use the tender.

 

[dylanwinter]

bumma

Stupidly not - I didn't think it would be so long from putting the engine on the pushpit bracket to actually having the conditions that would prompt us to use the tender.

it does sound as though the oil never got a chance to get itself around the engine and that the moist air did its stuff on the engine

what a difficult position for you and Honda

Dylan

 

[alant]

I purchased a brand new Honda 2.3hp four stroke thinking that after all of Honda's years of manufacturing experience this would be the best to go for for my tender, given 2 strokes have been banned.

When it arrived at the start of the season, we filled it with oil and mounted it on the holding bracket on the pushpit of our Dufour 34, where it sat, the weather being so awful over much of the sailing season that we didn't stop in any anchorages but preferred marina hopping. When we went to use it during our summer cruise, it would not start and so we cleaned the spark plugs and tried again. Still nothing so we called out a local Honda dealer, who couldn't get it to start and took it away to his workshop.

When he called, I was horrified to hear that the engine had severe water damage, with corroded pistons. We contacted the dealer we bought the engine from and they commissioned a report, with unsurpringly similar findings of corrosion to the piston heads and scoring (probably caused by the attempts to start the engine). Both engineers concluded the engine must have been submersed to be damaged in that way, but I know for a fact that the engine has not been submersed during my ownership, it being locked on the pushpit holding bracket a good 2m out of the water until we went to use it in the summer.

We contacted Honda, who have basically said there's nothing they can do as they claim no manufacturers fault and the dealer won't do anything because they say it must have been dropped in water.

I wondered if anyone else has encountered similar issues with a Honda 2.3 hp outboard as I am completely puzzled as to how such severe water damage has occurred when the outboard has sat comfortably out of the water, the boat hasn't been overcome by waves and we certainly haven't dropped the outboard in the briney.

Needless to say, I won't be buying another Honda outboard, nor dealing with this particular dealer again, so any suggestions for an outboard that won't pack up from being exposed to a normal British sailing season would be useful (please no 2 stroke suggestions, I'm sore enough already that I can't just go and buy one).

Has it been stored/carried, so leg is higher than the cylinders?
they do have a warning notice & must be placed side down on a particular side, so cylinders are higher.

 

[sbrown]

Has it been stored/carried, so leg is higher than the cylinders?
they do have a warning notice & must be placed side down on a particular side, so cylinders are higher.

Not to my knowledge, but who knows what a courier would do. That was originally the concern of the first engineer to look at the engine when we couldn't get it to start, as incorrect carrying would have led to the spark plug being coated in oil and the engine not starting. However, that was checked and the plugs cleaned as the first of the many things tested.

My main question is figuring out how the water damage occurred.

 

[gordmac]

Any way of telling if the damage was from salt or fresh water? If it was the rain it would be fresh water (assuming you boat in the sea) and a not fit for purpose claim.

 

[single]

I had all sorts of problems with my new honda 2.Nothing but trouble and useless customer support.All oil related same as above.Sold it after a few hours use and happy with Mariner now.

 

[sbrown]

I had all sorts of problems with my new honda 2.Nothing but trouble and useless customer support.All oil related same as above.Sold it after a few hours use and happy with Mariner now.

Which Mariner did you get - the 2.5 or 3.5?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Which Mariner did you get - the 2.5 or 3.5?

I have the Mercury 3.5 which is same engine as Mariner and Tohatsu 3.5. The 3.5 is the same engine as the 2.5 but has been tuned up; so for the extra £50 pounds it is better to get the 3.5 hp. It is a relatively heavy engine, but plenty of power.

I bought it last year, to get me to my mooring which is 3 minutes from the shore, hence it has not done too many hours, however, at the beginning of this year's season it has been starting on the first or second pull as normal but after 15 minutes it would stop dead and start again when cooled down. Very inconvenient when out in the water half way against wind and tide. The mercury dealer could not find anything wrong with it, but it still carried on stopping; i took it back again and they have now changed the coil; i will try it out in a few days, lets hope that the problem has been sorted out.

While the Mercury was out of action, I relied on my old (1995) 2hp four stroke Honda, reliable as always but rather old now.

 

[ChrisE]

it does sound as though the oil never got a chance to get itself around the engine and that the moist air did its stuff on the engine

what a difficult position for you and Honda

Dylan

Dylan,

I think that you've nailed it. We've had one for 5 years and it has been cared for in my usual way, ie not at all, and it hasn't missed a beat. Neither have those that friends have.

 

[Richard10002]

Not to my knowledge, but who knows what a courier would do. That was originally the concern of the first engineer to look at the engine when we couldn't get it to start, as incorrect carrying would have led to the spark plug being coated in oil and the engine not starting. However, that was checked and the plugs cleaned as the first of the many things tested.

My main question is figuring out how the water damage occurred.

I have had some success recently writing to suppliers and quoting the Sale of Goods Act, as per the Money Saving Expert. Goods must be fit for purpose, amongst other things.

I make it clear that I am going to court if they don't satisfy me, (and I would), and, in two cases this year, the companies concerned have resolved the issue to my satisfaction - Sterling Power and Richer Sounds. In both cases I emailed the letter as well as posting with signed for delivery. In both cases, I got a response to my email the next morning.

You can be pretty sure that Honda won't want to go to court, where a judge will be deciding whether to believe the consumer, or the big company.

Worth a try, as you have nothing to lose. Even if you have to issue a summons, it's about £80 or so, and I always treat it as worth the money for the education and experience, even if I were to lose.

Takes a bit of time to write the letter and make it read right

 

[dylanwinter]

would you

I have had some success recently writing to suppliers and quoting the Sale of Goods Act, as per the Money Saving Expert. Goods must be fit for purpose, amongst other things.

I make it clear that I am going to court if they don't satisfy me, (and I would), and, in two cases this year, the companies concerned have resolved the issue to my satisfaction - Sterling Power and Richer Sounds. In both cases I emailed the letter as well as posting with signed for delivery. In both cases, I got a response to my email the next morning.

You can be pretty sure that Honda won't want to go to court, where a judge will be deciding whether to believe the consumer, or the big company.

Worth a try, as you have nothing to lose. Even if you have to issue a summons, it's about £80 or so, and I always treat it as worth the money for the education and experience, even if I were to lose.

Takes a bit of time to write the letter and make it read right

sound advice

just curious though

would you do this even if you thought that the incident was no fault of the company and as a result of something you or a third party had done

Dylan

 

[sbrown]

Dylan,

I think that you've nailed it. We've had one for 5 years and it has been cared for in my usual way, ie not at all, and it hasn't missed a beat. Neither have those that friends have.

Although according to Honda, they run the engine at the end of production and according to the dealer they run the engine as a pre-delivery check. Both of these tests should have ensured a coating of oil around the moving parts to provide protection. None of the engineers pointed to lack of running as a cause of the damage and the facts as stated have been laid out to both sets of engineers.

 

[dylanwinter]

good point

Although according to Honda, they run the engine at the end of production and according to the dealer they run the engine as a pre-delivery check. Both of these tests should have ensured a coating of oil around the moving parts to provide protection. None of the engineers pointed to lack of running as a cause of the damage and the facts as stated have been laid out to both sets of engineers.

good point

I wonder if the engines we wested for PBO had all be run up before delivery

some of them had been set up by the dealers - and they performed well

some of the others....

dunno

D

 

[Richard10002]

sound advice

just curious though

would you do this even if you thought that the incident was no fault of the company and as a result of something you or a third party had done

Dylan

No. I believe that you reap what you sow, (sew?).

In the current case, the OP bought an engine, put it on the pushpit and, when he came to use it, it didn't work. You would expect an engine to survive a pushpit, and for it to work when you came to use it, even if some time ha gone by.

Honda say he must have submerged it, he says he didn't - Prima facie, he didn't, Honda can't possibly know. Unless we aren't getting enough of the facts, I'd be writing, and heading for court if they didn't sort it out.

 

[uxb]

My wee Honda 2 HP ran as sweet as you like from day one. On day two it took a swim in Tobermory but nothing a kettle of hot fresh water, clean fluids and some WD 40 didn't sort. 15 odd years later (can it really be two boats ago? ) it's still running sweetly- after another swim last week.

I wouldn't buy anything else.