Holyhead Marina

davidjackson said:
Saddened to read that this thread has deteriorated in armchair expert naval architects with degrees in hindsight and others making completely unwarranted derogatory and disparaging comments on Holyhead and its residents.

As a long standing bertholder myself, I know a lot of people directly impacted by this natural disaster and I can't imagine that some of the comments on here offer them much comfort at what must be a difficult time.
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Natural disaster?
Was much else damaged in the town?

Or are we really just looking at one man-made structure failing in conditions which were really just the top end of 'to be expected now and again'?

I don't think the industry should be allowed to pass this off as some sort of 'act of god' if it's really just a structure not fit for the use to which it was put.
 
Sad loss.
Lots to consider from forum posts. With reports a clean up operation will take a number of weeks if not months the cost will be huge.
Will the marina insurers pick up the bill who ever they are and how much
£10,000,000-£20,000,000 or higher?
A number of commercial vessels also damaged.
How much to rebuild this marina or will it just revert to swing moorings?
Such a shame for the local people.
 
Sandyshore said:
Sad loss.
Lots to consider from forum posts. With reports a clean up operation will take a number of weeks if not months the cost will be huge.
Will the marina insurers pick up the bill who ever they are and how much
£10,000,000-£20,000,000 or higher?
A number of commercial vessels also damaged.
How much to rebuild this marina or will it just revert to swing moorings?
Such a shame for the local people.
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The grapevine says that pollution control specialists have been contracted to clear up at an initial cost of £500K.
 
One of the troubles with modern society is that we are quick to associate "cause" with "blame". I'm keen to understand how this incident came about because that is the best way to learn from it and, maybe selfishly, make sure I never suffer the same fate, however far to often the truth gets buried or lost simply because it's emergence may well lead to allegations of blame.

This may be a natural disaster by definition in that it was a natural force that was certainly disastrous to some, not it's not exactly an entirely unexpected event is it. Britain is struck by gales and high winds pretty much every year and some places have a much better reputation of providing shelter than others. As responsible boat owners we consider this and make calculated decisions as to how much risk we are prepared to take, so ultimately our exposure to such "disasters" is governed by us. I'm not saying I'm not sorry for the owners impacted by this event, nobody likes to see a fellow sailer in such distress, however ultimately we have to recognise that it was their decision to keep their boat in this marina. This decision may well have been made in the full knowledge and acceptance of what could happen, it could have been made under some false illusion of safety because it's been "fine for the past 18 years" or it could have been made with a degree of ignorance around the whole subject, but a decision it was. A decision as to where to keep your boat is generally based on convenience, cost and safety, we weigh up these factors and decide what are our priorities, or what we can afford. It's no coincidence that the more exposed and remote locations are cheaper......

I know I got accused of being nasty last time I attempted to broach this subject and I can only repeat that that is not my intention, I simply want to concentrate on understanding how this loss came about. Sometimes the truth hurts, that's life I'm afraid.
 
Triassic said:
One of the troubles with modern society is that we are quick to associate "cause" with "blame". I'm keen to understand how this incident came about because that is the best way to learn from it and, maybe selfishly, make sure I never suffer the same fate, however far to often the truth gets buried or lost simply because it's emergence may well lead to allegations of blame.

This may be a natural disaster by definition in that it was a natural force that was certainly disastrous to some, not it's not exactly an entirely unexpected event is it. Britain is struck by gales and high winds pretty much every year and some places have a much better reputation of providing shelter than others. As responsible boat owners we consider this and make calculated decisions as to how much risk we are prepared to take, so ultimately our exposure to such "disasters" is governed by us. I'm not saying I'm not sorry for the owners impacted by this event, nobody likes to see a fellow sailer in such distress, however ultimately we have to recognise that it was their decision to keep their boat in this marina. This decision may well have been made in the full knowledge and acceptance of what could happen, it could have been made under some false illusion of safety because it's been "fine for the past 18 years" or it could have been made with a degree of ignorance around the whole subject, but a decision it was. A decision as to where to keep your boat is generally based on convenience, cost and safety, we weigh up these factors and decide what are our priorities, or what we can afford. It's no coincidence that the more exposed and remote locations are cheaper......

I know I got accused of being nasty last time I attempted to broach this subject and I can only repeat that that is not my intention, I simply want to concentrate on understanding how this loss came about. Sometimes the truth hurts, that's life I'm afraid.
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You are absolutely right. It was common and accepted knowledge among those with eyes open and a brain that this disaster would happen one day. I've been in there with a F6 N Easterly and that was bad enough with a just few boats damaged. The circumstances leading to the disaster wasn't bad luck, the fact that it survived up to now was just good luck.
 
savageseadog said:
You are absolutely right. It was common and accepted knowledge among those with eyes open and a brain that this disaster would happen one day. I've been in there with a F6 N Easterly and that was bad enough with a just few boats damaged. The circumstances leading to the disaster wasn't bad luck, the fact that it survived up to now was just good luck.
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I'm not sure the average boat owner can be expected to know whether a breakwater pontoon is going to bounce around and maybe damage anything tied to it, or fail.
 
lw395 said:
I'm not sure the average boat owner can be expected to know whether a breakwater pontoon is going to bounce around and maybe damage anything tied to it, or fail.
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I would have thought it fairly logical that anything floating is going to move around with any wave action, so the first question I would ask is how much wave action is it going to be exposed to. It seems to me that in this case the area where the marina was had a reputation for being quite bumpy in winds from a certain direction, so the next question is was the pontoon a breakwater designed to protect the marina from said waves, or something designed to be moored to, and I don't see how it can be both.

I don't know if somebody could clarify that point. I had been under the impression that all the pontoons had vessels on them and the wave action caused them all to move around until they failed, but then I read that a vessel broke free from a mooring upwind (anchored or swing mooring, not sure?) and that this drifted down onto the breakwater pontoon causing it to fail, thus exposing the boats in the marina to the full force of the weather. Does anyone know which is right?
 
lw395 said:
I'm not sure the average boat owner can be expected to know whether a breakwater pontoon is going to bounce around and maybe damage anything tied to it, or fail.
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Having read of repeated failures at Rhu over the years, I'm naturally very wary of floating breakwaters.
 
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savageseadog said:
Have a look at post 13 in 2015 on this thread http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...i-or-Holyhead/page2&highlight=holyhead+marina . There's probably others.

As an aside I would have never considered leaving my boat in the water there over winter, even in summer it was problematic. Nothing to do with being wise after the event.
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Yes when I had my boat in the Menai 1o years ago the general belief amongt boaties I knew was that the marina would all end up in the corner with a big blow from the east.
 
chrishscorp said:
Last time we came back in to pompey harbour we were a little surprised to see the Border force cutter tied up on the outer pontoon in Haslar Marina, at 42 Metres and 260 tons she dwarfed everything in the Marina, we all commented how bizzarre it looked when there was a perfectly good HM dockyard with empty berths not 250 yards away vastly more suited to berthing her.
Wind would not neccesarily be an issue in that location but serious wash can be.
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Now currently in No2 Basin. :encouragement:
 
C08 said:
Yes when I had my boat in the Menai 1o years ago the general belief amongt boaties I knew was that the marina would all end up in the corner with a big blow from the east.
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Quite. I commissioned a yacht in Bangor about ten years ago. Everyone I asked about berthing told me about the venerability of Holyhead Marina.

I would have said it wasn't just local 'know-alls' who questioned its design, but it was common knowledge that the place had its problems and would one day end in tears.
 
Interesting that the videos appear to show the boats on moorings still where they were. The marina has been established since my time in North Wales waters but even 20 years ago it was known that easterlies were bad news, even for moorings.
 
C08 said:
Yes when I had my boat in the Menai 1o years ago the general belief amongt boaties I knew was that the marina would all end up in the corner with a big blow from the east.
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The Marina management are reported to have put the wind force as F9, RAF Valley reported F8. Those wind strengths aren't off the scale at all, the only sligtly remarkable things were the direction. and spring tides. The Royal Charter storm October 1859, Anglesey, was an F12 Easterly. A 100 years and a day later the Hindlea was also wrecked in F12 Easterlies in the same spot as the Royal Charter.
 
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