Holding tanks- Spain

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bromleybysea

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I'm planning a cruise to northern Spain this summer in my elderly Rustler- which does not have a holding tank- is this likely to be a problem in the light of:

Spain has also introduced holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available.

If I lock off the outlet seacock will I be safe from over enthusiatic officials?
 
I have friends who own boats in the rias they dont have holding tanks and there is probably no place to empty one if you had it.To abide by regulations it is required thatyou do indeed have a waste tank or something like a porta potti.With the financial crisis I should imagine no one is out to upset tourists.On the other hand Spain is far behind on keeping its waters up to a clean standard and we as users of yachts go to the shower block to **** etc.A porta potti would be acceptable to the inspection authorities.As with all official stuff Spanish it may or may not happen; sometimes they have a purge and you may get visited by the guardia civil.
 
Regulations on discharge of waste do not state how the requirements should be met by visiting boats. Commonly, compulsory fitting of holding tanks is only required of vessels operating in home waters, or commercial vessels (charterers included). Various Baltic states are easing towards requiring visitors to have tanks . . .

However, most Med and Baltic states do not permit discharge of sewage within their territorial waters, or sometimes within a distance less than 12nm. How you achieve this is down to you.

Alternatives to holding tanks and porta-potties may be:
- big cork
- double dose of loperimide
- nappies
 
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jimbaerselman said:
Regulations on discharge of waste do not state how the requirements should be met by visiting boats. Commonly, compulsory fitting of holding tanks is only required of vessels operating in home waters, or commercial vessels (charterers included). Various Baltic states are easing towards requiring visitors to have tanks . . .

However, most Med and Baltic states do not permit discharge of sewage within their territorial waters, or sometimes within a distance less than 12nm. How you achieve this is down to you.

Alternatives to holding tanks and porta-potties may be:
- big cork
- double dose of loperimide
- nappies
Click to expand...
Levity Jim, levity...
 
We fitted a holding tank last year before heading south to the Canaries. No oficicial has asked to see it which has been a bit of a disappointment as we're quite pleased with our handiwork. We've only come across 2 pump out stations, only one of which was working.
In the Rias we used the tank daily and discharged it at night. The big plus was that we like swimming in the morning and this felt a better way of managing things.
 
bromleybysea said:
I'm planning a cruise to northern Spain this summer in my elderly Rustler- which does not have a holding tank- is this likely to be a problem in the light of:

Spain has also introduced holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available.

If I lock off the outlet seacock will I be safe from over enthusiatic officials?
Click to expand...

ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April says that you cannot discharge "dirty water" (read sewage) in the following waters over which Spain exercises sovereignty:
a) Ports,
b) Protected waters (read MCZs, etc),
c) Other zones such as estuaries, bays, or similar.

Discharge of sewage by pleasure boats is permitted in other territorial waters if the following conditions are met:
a) That the discharge is made at least 3 nautical miles from the nearest land and the material has been macerated and disinfected (use a good toilet additive -- Aqua Chem Blue, or whatever). 12 miles if not macerated or disinfected. Discharge must be made under way at 4 knots or more.
b) If the sewage has been treated by an approved onboard installation (read sewage treatment plant with digestors, separators, enzymes, etc). Not very common on our boats !!!!
c) If the sewage is mixed with other waste water that has a more restrictive discharge limitation, that limitation applies (read: if you mix oil or other toxic waste into your holding tank: no discharge allowed -- only through port installations or suction lorry, etc). You don't mix oil or dirty bilgewater into your holding tank, do you?

The ORDEN then goes on to say that the above is not applicable:
a) if the safety of the boat or its crew requires it, or to save lives at sea.
b) to the discharge of sewage produced because of a machinery breakdown if all reasonable efforts have been taken to avoid the discharge or to minimise it.

So you see, the situation is not quite as restrictive as originally stated -- 12 mile limit, etc.

However -- no holding tank at all would lead to your toilet installation being "precintado" for the duration of your stay, and maybe a fine as well, depending on the humour of the official involved.

If you do have a tank, no one can fine you unless you have been seen to discharge where you should not do so. Any discharge while tied up to a harbour wall in port under the noses of the promenading locals, for example, would be tempting fate -- you would probably get away with it, but if you don't, you only have yourself to blame. Apart from anything else, it is anyway disgusting behaviour to pump raw sewage into the water in full view of passers-by. To do so more discreetly, or to empty your holding tank inside the 3-mile limit, is illegal but -- sometimes needs must. The material is all biodegradable anyway, and some species of fish seem to thrive on it !!! Mullet seem to be attracted to untreated sewage, in great numbers, as can be seen near any town sewage outlet.

A final comment -- very few ports or marinas on the Atlantic coast are fitted with shore-side discharge equipment, so just pump out at sea, and in any case, do so discreetly (see other posts for appropriate hints and suggestions).

HTH

Plomong

PS: The above ORDEN text is not a literal translation, but a translated precise of the text, which I have to hand, in Spanish (in which I am fluent after 30+ years working here in the Basque Country).
 
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bromleybysea said:
I'm planning a cruise to northern Spain this summer in my elderly Rustler- which does not have a holding tank- is this likely to be a problem in the light of:

Spain has also introduced holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available.

If I lock off the outlet seacock will I be safe from over enthusiatic officials?
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I suggest you make a formal enquiry in the following fashion:~

Tell them you are an international yachting journalist making a formal enquiry regarding the statistics of pump out facilities on the Spanish coast. How many pumps do they have operating and what are their locations ?

I bet you a beer you won't get an answer. :eek:

You may talk yoursef blue in the face in whatever language you choose whether English or Spanish and the response will be zero.:D
 
VO5 said:
I suggest you make a formal enquiry in the following fashion:~

Tell them you are an international yachting journalist making a formal enquiry regarding the statistics of pump out facilities on the Spanish coast. How many pumps do they have operating and what are their locations ?

I bet you a beer you won't get an answer. :eek:

You may talk yoursef blue in the face in whatever language you choose whether English or Spanish and the response will be zero.:D
Click to expand...

Will you hold your whisht, goddamn you -- don't provoke them, they are bad enough without encouragement.

Plomong
 
I spent last summer cruising in Northern Spain. No official seemed interested in any paperwork, let alone holding tanks and we have never been asked about them throughout the Mediteranean. I think it very unlikely if you used them in Northern Spain you would find anywhere to pump them out anyway, I cant recall seeing anywhere.

Interestlingly, Portimao marina in the Algarve has a very impressive pump out facility, but again no one has ever asked us about holding tanks.
 
VO5 said:
Bad in what sense Plomong ?

Go on...do tell....:D
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Regulations, Regulations and more Regulations.

Have you seen what equipment is obligatory for a boat to be permitted to cross the English Channel between Poole and Cherbourg ??? Since the distance is about 55 miles you will be at some point more than 25 miles from land and so will need a Category 2 permit: EPIRB, SART, an approved hand-held VHF (costs about 800 Euros), SOLAS liferaft, etc. similar if not the same as what is considered "Coding" for commercial use in the UK. See the quoted ORDEN for all details.

Sealing off toilets on older (20+ years) boats that do not and cannot easily have holding tanks installed.

Etc, and don't get me started, the list is long, very long ....

Plomong
 
Plomong said:
Regulations, Regulations and more Regulations.

Have you seen what equipment is obligatory for a boat to be permitted to cross the English Channel between Poole and Cherbourg ??? Since the distance is about 55 miles you will be at some point more than 25 miles from land and so will need a Category 2 permit: EPIRB, SART, an approved hand-held VHF (costs about 800 Euros), SOLAS liferaft, etc. similar if not the same as what is considered "Coding" for commercial use in the UK. See the quoted ORDEN for all details.

Sealing off toilets on older (20+ years) boats that do not and cannot easily have holding tanks installed.

Etc, and don't get me started, the list is long, very long ....

Plomong
Click to expand...

Plomong, sincerely, I shouldn't let it worry you.
Much of this stuff is cardboard cutout. EEC nonsense repeated parrot fashion.
We have long experience of dealing with our neighbours, just PM me in case of need.
 
bromleybysea said:
I'm planning a cruise to northern Spain this summer in my elderly Rustler- which does not have a holding tank- is this likely to be a problem in the light of:
Click to expand...

Not a problem, no-one has ever even asked if we have a holding tank and I don't remember having seen a pump-out station in any of the harbours or Rias - not that I was particularly looking.
 
Was in Cangas ,Ria De Vigo, to day......nice smell of sewage off the mud at low water; been like that for a very long time ,still it is expected that yactsmen do it in the shower block provided;although its not beyond the realms of possibility that it goes strait to the sea!!!
 
VO5 said:
I shouldn't let it worry you.
Click to expand...

I don't.

However, the regulations are changing all the time and you don't find out what has changed until it hits you in the face, or the pocket, when it is most inconvenient. There is insufficient targeted publicity given to this aspect of boating over here, and a clear sensation that the changes are more motivated by commercial interests than by consultation with boaters.

VO5 said:
just PM me in case of need.
Click to expand...

Will do, if the need arises.

Plomong
 
mogy said:
Was in Cangas ,Ria De Vigo, to day......nice smell of sewage off the mud at low water; been like that for a very long time ,still it is expected that yactsmen do it in the shower block provided;although its not beyond the realms of possibility that it goes strait to the sea!!!
Click to expand...

Some north coast yacht clubs are built out over the sea on piles, and have vertical sewers that enclose the black water on their way seaward to keep a modicum of decorum.

In Bermeo, the stench in the inner harbour on a calm summer's night is just revolting. Cannot be described. Formerly, and probably still to a great extent, the canneries effluent mixed with town sewage entered the harbour at the innermost part, just under the building called "The Casino", where it was digested by hordes of mullet. Yuch.

Plomong
 
mogy said:
I am suprised;I thought the Basques were more advanced!!!!
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Leftovers from an earlier "life", if you know what I mean.

A new sewage scheme is under construction to serve most of the Urdaibai estuary, which extends inland from Bermeo south to Gernika. Bermeo is just to the west of the outer estuary and is included in the scheme. Don't know when it will be connected, or whether it has already been connected, however.

Most other towns and all cities have had sewerage schemes for many years now, the new one in Bilbao dating from the eighties, the modernised and extended one in Mungia from 5 years ago, the old one from 20+ years ago ....

Plomong
 
I suspect that in keeping with the finest EU tradition, the rules will be enforced when and if someone finds they can make money out of it.

In 1996, when I was there foreign yachts were being fined in La Coruna for discharge. Staff were "spotting for bubbles" from the harbour office lookout high up on the breakwater, among the yachts moored below outside the yacht club. Ironically La Coruna was one of the dirtiest ports in Europe at that time - the oil film on the water made the bubbles more obvious.

This suggests another alternative to the cork etc options: Position your discharge outlet so far down that the disturbance isn't evident at the surface.
 
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