Holding Tanks (or not)

[Fr J Hackett]

Yup. But it's bread and butter for a plumber...

I think you might have used different terminology

 

[Poignard]

Yup. But it's bread and butter for a plumber...

I don't think I'll ever eat bread and butter again.

 

[Hacker]

Certainly not brown bread!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Yup. But it's bread and butter for a plumber...

I think I prefer real Nutella.

 

[Stemar]

The sewage barges in the Thames used to be called Bovril Boats, with good reason.

IIRC, at that time, if you fell in the Thames in central London it was straight off to hospital for a stomach pump...

 

[oldgit]

Before you decide that all yachts should have holding tanks, consider the number of houseboats that have mains water connected but nothing for waste water. They polute the water every day of the year compared to the occassional time from a yacht.

as a small yacht club locally knows only to well .

 

[oldgit]

I think I prefer real Nutella.

Aldi knockoff came out top in taste and was half the price in a recent "WHICH" magazine comparo !

 

[Biggles Wader]

Yup. But it's bread and butter for a plumber...

Just as long as it aint got jam on it

 

[ylop]

This thread reminds me a lot about how people often view taxes - everyone "bigger than me" should pay more / do more, but I am already doing plenty or make such a small contribution I might as well not bother. I think if the general public realised that people who can afford to purchase and keep a yacht won't pay to dispose of their shit responsibly (either discharge in genuine open sea, or pump out) their tolerance of yachties would be even less than if they realised we've been fighting for years not to pay full duty on diesel we burn mostly for pleasure!

 

[RupertW]

This thread reminds me a lot about how people often view taxes - everyone "bigger than me" should pay more / do more, but I am already doing plenty or make such a small contribution I might as well not bother. I think if the general public realised that people who can afford to purchase and keep a yacht won't pay to dispose of their shit responsibly (either discharge in genuine open sea, or pump out) their tolerance of yachties would be even less than if they realised we've been fighting for years not to pay full duty on diesel we burn mostly for pleasure!

You are massively overstating the issue - the tiny amount of entirely natural human waste discharged by yachts is not even a drop in the ocean of the sea pollution problem caused by town and city waste and agricultural run-off. Just unnecessary infrastructure, wages and charges.

A fully enclosed non tidal marina basin (eg inside a lock) is one extreme where there would be an aesthetic and just possibly a health problem, but a tidal anchorage much less and a few hundreds yards offshore then no detectable problem at all.

And we already know we don’t have to worry about the public’s sympathy - it simply doesn’t exist and never will. Whether for rights to anchor due to entirely unscientific worries about sea grass (where agricultural run-off, trawling and sea temp changes matter massively more), or rights to roam in Europe, or red diesel or pretty much anything else.

 

[ylop]

You are massively overstating the issue - the tiny amount of entirely natural human waste discharged by yachts is not even a drop in the ocean of the sea pollution problem caused by town and city waste and agricultural run-off. Just unnecessary infrastructure, wages and charges

And you've proven my point! No point on us doing anything to make the environment we use more pleasant because others are even worse. Same argument used by small fishing boats discarding gear at sea - your think we are bad, the factory ships are way worse etc. How about we show some leadership and act responsibly. I'm not even averse to discharge at sea, so it doesn't need to cost real sailors anything if they have a holding tank installed and relative to the purchase of a yacht a holding tank is trivial. What counts as "the sea" in my views? I probably don't even need to be as draconian as 3 miles that many countries use but 200m is not acceptable to me. That's the distance that people paddleboard or swim. I have no more right to pollute their recreational space than they have to demand no boats in an area. Perhaps the MCA definition of "at sea" is a useful guide - and anything which is categorised waters (so that's the whole of the solent!) should really be off limits.

And we already know we don’t have to worry about the public’s sympathy - it simply doesn’t exist and never will. Whether for rights to anchor due to entirely unscientific worries about sea grass (where agricultural run-off, trawling and sea temp changes matter massively more), or rights to roam in Europe, or red diesel or pretty much anything else.

perhaps if yachtsmen (and they are predominantly men) weren't so arrogant in general we might get more understanding of our concerns. For what its worth - plenty of yachtsmen voted for brexit and the inevitable restrictions on freedom or movement, and not every yachtsman thinks your desire to anchor in a busy bay should trump any protections brought in to protect the sea bed.

 

[mjcoon]

You are massively overstating the issue - the tiny amount of entirely natural human waste discharged by yachts is not even a drop in the ocean of the sea pollution problem caused by town and city waste and agricultural run-off. Just unnecessary infrastructure, wages and charges.

I'm glad to read that, by implication, you do not flush toilet paper down your yacht toilet.

 

[Bobc]

I hope it's cleared by early September, when I expect to go sailing again.

Hopefully see you there.

 

[penfold]

Yup. But it's bread and butter for a plumber...

 

[RupertW]

I'm glad to read that, by implication, you do not flush toilet paper down your yacht toilet.

Absolutely right. We have the Med style of a bin (lined and with closing lid) by each loo.

The number of times I’ve seen loo paper on rocks and when snorkelling to check the anchor is revolting. In a similar way I have also seen how rapidly the biological stuff is getting eaten with the piscine equivalent of seagulls flocking to a dropped Big Mac.

 

[RupertW]

And you've proven my point! No point on us doing anything to make the environment we use more pleasant because others are even worse. Same argument used by small fishing boats discarding gear at sea - your think we are bad, the factory ships are way worse etc. How about we show some leadership and act responsibly. I'm not even averse to discharge at sea, so it doesn't need to cost real sailors anything if they have a holding tank installed and relative to the purchase of a yacht a holding tank is trivial. What counts as "the sea" in my views? I probably don't even need to be as draconian as 3 miles that many countries use but 200m is not acceptable to me. That's the distance that people paddleboard or swim. I have no more right to pollute their recreational space than they have to demand no boats in an area. Perhaps the MCA definition of "at sea" is a useful guide - and anything which is categorised waters (so that's the whole of the solent!) should really be off limits.

perhaps if yachtsmen (and they are predominantly men) weren't so arrogant in general we might get more understanding of our concerns. For what its worth - plenty of yachtsmen voted for brexit and the inevitable restrictions on freedom or movement, and not every yachtsman thinks your desire to anchor in a busy bay should trump any protections brought in to protect the sea bed.

No, it’s a classic diversion tactic of those who actually cause a problem to put the blame on somebody who causes far less, or none, of the same problem. If the first party causes 50% of a problem and next 30% and so on, then concentrating on somebody low down the chain at 1% doesn’t do anything except encourage the major polluters.

And even worse if some of that 1% decide they will take on that blame enthusiastically and aid the major polluters that way.

 

[Boathook]

Absolutely right. We have the Med style of a bin (lined and with closing lid) by each loo.

The number of times I’ve seen loo paper on rocks and when snorkelling to check the anchor is revolting. In a similar way I have also seen how rapidly the biological stuff is getting eaten with the piscine equivalent of seagulls flocking to a dropped Big Mac.

I was under the impression that boat toilets macerate everything, well at least my have done so far. Is the paper you have seen from land sewer pipes ?

 

[penfold]

The problem is the paper degrades far slower than the turds, so it can accumulate as a choking blanket on the seabed around outfalls, in marinas or intensively used anchorages poorly flushed by tide.

 

[ylop]

Absolutely right. We have the Med style of a bin (lined and with closing lid) by each loo.

presumably, you realise you are the exception though and that normal users don't bother? and that part of the reason they don't bother is people like you argue holding tanks and discharge only when offshore are completely unnecessary. If you mean "so long as you store your shitty paper in a bucket you aren't a big part of the problem" you should probably say that so people can make an informed judgement on which bit of inconvenience they will suffer - a holding tank or a bag of used toilet paper to dispose of.

I was under the impression that boat toilets macerate everything, well at least my have done so far. Is the paper you have seen from land sewer pipes ?

if they really did that totally holding tanks and sea cocks would never block! Even if its really good at mincing stuff you still have finely shredded paper that will take a while in the environment to break down.

And even worse if some of that 1% decide they will take on that blame enthusiastically and aid the major polluters that way.

Now we have reached peak nonsense - not only are you not part of the problem, but any boat owner who is willing to take responsibility for their own waste is actually just helping the major polluters. I don't mind when selfish people ignore everyone else, but once selfish people start lecturing those who do bother to respect others it really gets my goat.

 

[RupertW]

I was under the impression that boat toilets macerate everything, well at least my have done so far. Is the paper you have seen from land sewer pipes ?

No definitely from yachts as it has been in bays with no infrastructure ashore and clustered around anchoring spots. A typical manual toilet just flushes it through intact.