Holding Tanks- Cruising Turkey

[Leonidas]

Thinking of visiting Aegean Turkey this summer. It was reported in this forum that Turkish authorities forbid any discharge of toilet effluents in the harbours. My boat is not fitted with holding tanks. Does the boat need to be fitted with fixed holding tanks for black waters or would a chemical type of toilet suffice???

 

[OldBawley]

Remarks

Some remarks :

The holding tank reg is only for Göcek bays area.

Chemical toilet not ok. What matters is MONEY.

BUY Blue card. then jou must pump out black water, to pace and quantity they predict. THEY being " officials" This is the theory.

Not chemical toilet, not a bucket, not going on land to schit behind the busch, all this is no good to validate your blue card. Paying bakschisch to the potyboatman helps.

Until now, only blabla, nothing happens.

The day that you are in the way, or the bay-corner for one of the Turkisch supermotorboats, one pfone call and you hang.

 

[macd]

Thinking of visiting Aegean Turkey this summer. It was reported in this forum that Turkish authorities forbid any discharge of toilet effluents in the harbours. My boat is not fitted with holding tanks. Does the boat need to be fitted with fixed holding tanks for black waters or would a chemical type of toilet suffice???

Don't know what OldBawley's been on, but perhaps when he comes round he could PM me the number of his supplier.

As a relative newbie, Leonidas, you're probably not aware of the many threads on this subject regarding proposed new regulations in one area. Amongst other things this even prohibited discharging grey water. Last I heard, these regs had been put on hold. As for elsewhere in Turkey, there is a prohibition against discharging black water which has often been misrepresented as a requirement to have a holding tank, but clearly the two are not the same. However, the situation is very fluid (a euphemism, perhaps, for confusing, erratic and nonsensical, which may account for OldBawley's justified rant) which means that even the rules which applied when I was there a year ago can't necessarily be relied upon.

This is what the RYA currently has to say on the subject:
"A black water tank has been a practical necessity in Turkey for many years, however with new procedures rumoured to be coming into force in 2010, both black and grey water tanks may soon be essential. A Blue Card will be required by every boat which will be used to ensure that holding tanks are pumped out rather than emptied into the sea. This is to be introduced initially along a limited stretch of the coast (Mugla District). Bilge water may also be monitored.

Information is at present somewhat vague. It is questionable whether or not the system is workable and whether or not the pump out facilities available will be sufficient to deal with the volume of waste water boats in the area will generate. We do not anticipate being able to obtain more detailed information before the Spring."

That "practical necessity" would not exclude the use of a chemiloo.

A couple of recent threads on the subject:
www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246827
www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17/new-rules-in-turkey-36436.html

 

[Leonidas]

This is most helful. Many thanks.

 

[OldBawley]

Drunk again

Love to read what the RYA has to say about the theme. Have not seen them around last winter.
I am wintercruising ( no marina ) the Göcek area for the last 11 years.
To my knowledge only three yachts wintering in the hole area, the 7 marinas not included. No yacht seen for weeks. This means we get lots of attention from coastguard etc.
Again, so far no implementation of the new rules.
Later, MUST buy Blue card and MUST pump uit even if no toilet or water on board. An absurd regulation which will be implemented the moment jou stand on someone`s toes.

 

[jimbaerselman]

The Cruising Association, with their bunch of local representatives, are usually more up to date in these matters than the RYA. Paraphrasing heavily; the Blue card scheme remains a proposal which is being reviewed, unlikely to be enforced this year.

The coast guard is, however, empowered to fine any boat which discharges "contaminants".

This has been the case certainly since 1984, when I first started to operate flotilla boats in the area. Contaminants in the early years even included showering on deck causing soap bubbles to float into the sea, certainly included bilge pumping or re-fuelling which created an oily sheen around the boat, and rather obviously included sewage. Fines usually arose through a Gulet registering a complaint. Some were inordinately high - I guess charter companies were seen as cash cows - £1,000 equivalent or more for a second or third offence within a fleet.

Our advice to clients was: 1. Use holding tank for all sewage; only discharge it when under way a good distance from the coast. 2. Don't shower or wash up on deck or on a pontoon allowing "grey" water to contaminate the sea. 3. When you wash up or shower down below, only discharge the the grey water very discreetly (night time . . . or when no-one is around to see). That stopped the fines.

The few transgressions over the last five years which have been reported to me seem to invite fines from private vessels of a few hundred Euro. I'd welcome any reports of fines.

 

[truscott]

Encouraging news on the Blue Card scheme then. We were going to give the whole bay a miss this year, which would have been a pity as it is quite lovely. Will rethink about it now (we have adequate black water holding tanks, but no grey water tanks and aren't desperate enough to install them just to cruise the area.

PT.

 

[OldBawley]

fines

Sorry wlan to bad to write longer posts.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Thanks Old Bawley. Very typical of 1990's. Any idea of the date of this?

 

[OldBawley]

Fines

The fine for the wood chips was last summer ( 2010 ), the other incident happened in 2007.

 

[lille_bee]

The eternal poo tank question

Come on people stop messing about; get the tanks fitted (black and grey water) with all the necessary deck pump-out pipework for when it finally and rightly becomes compulsory to pump out ashore (Take the hit). Us tidally-blessed north europeans cannot go on "pissing" in other people's backyards when they don't have the luxury of a twice-daily flush.

Yes I know many places are not yet fully set up to receive the waste but that doesn't mean you can happily pollute those beautiful harbours in the stunning Gulf of Gocek in the meantime. I for one would not be happy swimming in your mess. Yes I know some of the locals and their gulets can be the worst offenders, but cutting the heads of other people's flowers doesn't make yours any taller. There is a local hotline to report such offenses (see the liquid waste man, in his green tug boat, for details or ask the restaurant owners)

Agreed the Ekincik My Marina rules about not even flushing your dirty decks down with sea water (because they may have had detergent on them) may seem a little heavy, but it is their back yard and therefore their rules, and what a suberb place because of it.

We'll be there all year so come and say hello.

So don't be mean, Keep it clean, and stay green.

 

[Appleyard]

Agree 100% with the above..you would not throw your rubbish over the side so why should it be OK to dump sharn into the water ( Sharn ..Scots vernacular for ****e) .
Nothing beats dropping the hook in a nice bay and jumping over the back into warm clear water.

It's not difficult to fit a holding tank,so get it done.

 

[rivonia]

Come on people stop messing about; get the tanks fitted (black and grey water) with all the necessary deck pump-out pipework for when it finally and rightly becomes compulsory to pump out ashore (Take the hit). Us tidally blessed north europeans cannot go on "pissing" in other peoples' backyards when they don't have the luxury of a twice daily flush.

Yes I know many places are not yet fully set up to receive the waste but that doesn't mean you can happily pollute those beautiful harbours in the stunning Gulf of Gocek in the mean time. I for one would not be happy swimming in your mess. Yes I know some of the locals and their gullets can be the worsed offenders but cutting the heads of other people's flowers doesn't make yours any taller. There is a local hot-line to report such offenses (see the liguid waste man, in his green tug boat, for details or ask the restaurant owners)

Agreed the Ekincik My Marina rules about not even flushing your dirty decks down with sea water (because they may have had detergent on them) may seem a little heavy but it is their back yard and therefore their rules and what a suberb place because of it.

We'll be there all year so come and say hello.

So don't be mean, Keep it clean stay and stay green

Agree with most of what you say, but a big NO to fitting grey water tank. You are joking right? Lets say 4 Men on board, four wash n shave, four showers twice a day (water maker)
you would need a monster tank. Hmm.

Peter

 

[masharry]

What about a compost toilet thereby avoiding holding tank altogether. We are about to fit one to our boat, so will be ale to report on it at some point.

 

[lennartl]

Hey
planning for sailing in MED and preparing my boat for the moment. One big interest is compost toilet. Can you please inform me of what lable you have chosen?

 

[truscott]

As I posted earlier, I have no problem with Black Water Holding Tanks. But what you're proposing will not even let anyone use a deck shower to rinse off when they come out from a swim. Being Green is one thing (and I'm all for using biodegradable shampoos and cleaning products), but being off your trolley Green is just a PITA and will have me sailing elsewhere.

Nice to know about My Marina in Eckinck. Will give them a miss this year too.

PT

 

[BlackSheep1]

Most sensible thing you have ever posted.

 

[Reasons2BCheerful]

Food for thought

There are approximately 1.312977765 x 10^21 litres of seawater in the world.

Let us generously say that there are 100,000 cruising yachts.

That's 1.31297765 x 10^16 litres per yacht.

Given an average crew of three, that is 4.37659255 x 10^15 litres per yachtsman.

With a daily shower and two wash-ups per day, we use about 100ml of shower gel and 100ml of washing-up liquid per person/week - so about 10.2l of detergent per year (assuming full-time liveaboard).

This gives an annual pollution rate of 10.2/(4.37659255 x 10^15) - which you could express as 2.33058021 × 10^-15. That's right folks, 0.0000000002331 ppm (approx.) in a YEAR!

Even allowing for localisation (most cruisers are in coastal waters) this really is at a level that would be virtually impossible to measure, let alone get concerned over.

And, of course, we all use biodegradeable detergents, don't we?

I like the idea of swimming, or eating fish caught in excrement no more than the next man. So let's pump out our blackwater when we are not at sea. But....a huge proportion of our land-based relatives (and there are many millions more of them than us) pump THEIR sewage into our oceans (very rarely beyond coastal waters). Now, admittedly, this is sometimes 'treated'.

What will the 'authorities' do with our pumped-out blackwater? My guess is that they will put it back into their sewage system and voila - it will be back in the sea (in great concentrations) before you can say 'M*rde!'. Of course, official pollution will be far better than unofficial pollution.....

Maybe our legislators should focus on starvation, de-forestation, civil war, tsunamis and all the other issues which are REALLY causing harm to the people of our planet. For our part, we can show common sense and consideration and not turn the most beautiful anchorages into sewage slicks.

As an afterthought, why did the Turkish authorities decide on a BLUE card - surely GREEN would have made more sense?

 

[vyv_cox]

What will the 'authorities' do with our pumped-out blackwater? My guess is that they will put it back into their sewage system and voila - it will be back in the sea (in great concentrations) before you can say 'M*rde!'. Of course, official pollution will be far better than unofficial pollution.....

This is definitely true for Greece. I know of three sewage treatment plants built and completed using EU money but never commissioned because raising the connection cost locally would impinge on future votes. One of these is at Poros, where anybody who has ever berthed at the west quay knows only too well where it all ends up. Not that there are any pumpout facilites in Greece that I know of.

 

[MASH]

All this wouldn't be so bad if it wasnt for the Gulets and picnic boats that, as we all know, dump raw sewage into every anchorage they use.

That is where they should start.