Here's something I never knew

Twister_Ken

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Here\'s something I never knew

If, like me, you remember the Rolling Stones before they started shaving, you'll also remember the incredibly militant dockworkers union. Right?

I thought at the time that they were just a stroppy bunch, but I'm currently reading a history of London Docks. What had never occurred to me is that the upstream docks were built in the days of sailing ships. Therefore, if there were days or weeks of easterlies, no ships could get up channel, and round the corner into the London River. Consequently there were times when the docks were deathly quiet. Then, when the wind went into the west, an armada of merchant ships would sweep up-channel and all park in London at the same time, demanding instant unloading. Consequently, the dock owners (private companies in those days), needed a 'flexible' workforce because they were competing fiercely with each other and trying to screw their costs into the floor. As a result, there were almost no permanently employed dockers. They used to have to turn up outside the dock gates in the morning and hang around to see if they would be choosen to do a day's work. Or even a half day's work, or an hour's work.

Not only did Channel winds effect activity in the docks, so did global seasonal weather patterns and harvests, so that Australian grain ships or China tea clippers for example wouldn't arrive throughout the year, but would be concentrated into one or two months of the year. Another reason for casualisation of labour. It was this uncertainty of employment which first made the dockers unionise.

The advent of steamships of course meant much more regular arrivals of shipping, and regularity of employment, but casuality by then suited the dock owners so well that they never considered employing a full time workforce, a situation that continued into the1960s when the London Docks were all but dead in the face of bigger ships (too big to get upriver into docks with 80 foot wide entry locks) and increasing containerisation.

Sorry to bore you.

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jhr

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Re: Here\'s something I never knew

Ahh, yes I remember all that.

Like you, I thought they were just a stroppy bunch of militant loonies but changed my views after watching a programme on the (goddam wimpy pinko commie) BBC schools TV slot explaining about the casualisation, and how the Docks labour market worked . The first of many political revisions on my part.........

The dockers were led by a guy called Jack Dash, if I remember rightly?

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graham

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Re: Here\'s something I never knew

What you may not realise Ken is that its gone full circle.Gangs of cash in hand cowboys are employed in many of our ports today.

Social Security /immigration do occasional swoops causing a rapid exodus of all those quick enough.

Even the more responsible Port Authorities employ agency labour which may be a bit more legitimate but they are untrained inexperienced people working in a dangerous environment.The accident statistics are unbelievable .

It seems to me we never get the balance right ,either the trade unions are overly millitant restricting our competitiveness or the employers act like modern day scrooges given half the chance.

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Magic_Sailor

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Not a lotta people know that.

My Grandad worked in the docks up at London Bridge and though he was a working class lad he managed to get a permanent job. Until quite late on (I don't know what year) his first job of the day was to go down to the dock gate and pick the men who were lucky enough to get work that day.

As a lifelong labour supporter I know he found it very distasteful.

Magic

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Mirelle

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Jack Dash was the \"unofficial\" leader

he was not the regular TGWU dockers section leader, he was a Trot who was good at PR. It worked, though, because I can remember his name but not the TGWU man. One side of all this was that the shipping companies would, out of respect for the regular unions, only comment in response to TGWU statements so they never responded to Jack Dash's allegations - and the BBC of course just said that they "refused to comment"!

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Re: Here\'s something I never knew

Its also one of the areas that brought about Coupon Insurance. Basically a worker would buy a coupon slip for x shillings .... remember shilings ...... and then if he fell ill - he would receive an insurance amount based on the number and value of slips he had.

It brought about the advent of some of the knock on door Insurance Co's ..........

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Mirelle

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Labour intensive to capital intensive....

Liners always ran to schedule, from their invention, by Alred Holt in 1863, onwards. But certainly sailing ships were erratic.

Liner ships used to dash from port to port at 22 knots (they still do!) but they then spent more than half their lives alongside, as the cargo was worked.

Malcolm Maclean invented the container, and this suited American shipping very well, as the USA has always been short of labour and long on capital. The 60's were a period when the long rivalry between UK and US shipping suddenly became intense as the Brits realised the power of containerisation.

That is now ancient history; there are now no US lines and only half a British one, but the industry has gone capital intensive not labour intensive. The unions certainly contributed to the death of the London Docks. The rise of Felixstowe was largely due to the fact that it was outside the Dock Labour Scheme.

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Re: Labour intensive to capital intensive....

Southampton .......

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Mudplugger

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Re: Labour intensive to capital intensive....

As a little innocent stating work in the late 50,s as a ships clearance clerk, for the main european coaster line that sailed under the fouled anchor. I trogged about most of the london docks, often into the small hours, and recieved a lot of help and advice from the militant? dockers...... However, what a lot of people were unaware of was that London would only work a 12hour day. If night shift was required something like triple time...If cargo considered Dirty....similar. At the time all Euro/Baltic/Med ports worked 24hours. Partic. Eastern Bloc.Very Large Muscular Ladies?...When the Colonel started Felixstowe a) He employed all Labour. b) Felixstowe worked 24 Hours. To Load a 3000 ton ship in London took a week, Baltic round trip 3 Ports Load/unload ,4 Days. Result-: Line moved all operations to Felixstowe

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bob_tyler

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Re: Here\'s something I never knew

I'm afraid that all I remember about the London dock strikes happened during the period 1950/51. I was on my National Service and brought my platoon of 30 3-ton Bedford QLs down from Glasgow Maryhill to the East End to strikebreak.

Many of my drivers were not amused as they were Glaswegians and sons of dockers.

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Twister_Ken

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Re: Labour intensive to capital intensive....

Your remark about 12 hour days may touch on history. When the London Docks were first opened they worked a 12 or a 10 hour day, 6 till 6 in the summer, 7 till 5 in the winter because the docks pre-dated gas or electric lighting, and needed daylight for working. The docks also superceded open river lighterage to wharves, where there was no nightime working because security on the open river was a huge problem with very organised thieving as well as more minor pilfering. In fact, one reason for enclosed docks was that they could be built behind very high walls, with strictly controlled entrance/exit points which cut the cost of losses enormously. So it makes me wonder if that 12 hour day that still ruled in the 1960s was a hangover from the very earliest days of the docks. It does seem the sort of thing that an inflexible union and a pig-headed employer would find difficult to negotiate their way out of.

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Twister_Ken

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And the book is...

London's Docks, by John Pudney.

Published by Thames and Hudson (seems appropriate!) . Copyright 1975. Can't find an ISBN. Got it out of local library.

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kingfisher

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Dock workers all the way

Who's going to benefit from the liberalisation of the dowk works?

1) Certainly not the dock workers, that's clear
2) Certainly not the crew
- captain and other higher up crew are already overworked and overburdened with administration when they arrive. The days of having a girl in every port are long gone: there's usualy not enough time to find one.
- ordinary seamen are usualy unskilled low-wagers

Loading a ship is a risky job, endangering crew and ship if done incorrectly. So we'll see much more accidents in the ports, and more ships faundering of the coast after wrongly being loaded/loads not secured properly.

two beneficiaries:
- port authorities; reduced costs, and ships will stay longer in port (don't tell me that the crew can load faster than dock workers), no difficult social issues to deal with
- ship owners. God knows we need to support these off-shore companies, seeing they gave us the Erika, the Brent canyon, and other nice incidents

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Mirelle

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It\'s already academic, Henk

The number of men required to load or unload even a very large ship, of any modern type, is already very few, as a visit to Europoort will soon show.

Containerships, bulk carriers and tankers are all handled by a handful of people.

I agree that stowing steels and pipes, etc. in the hold of a handysize bulk carrier needs some care and thought, but it cannot compare to the complexity of a tweendeck liner's stow.

However, it can be noted that this handful of men do have real industrial power and can bargain quite well for themselves.



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BlueSkyNick

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Beneficiaries of a business

No business is run for the benefit of its employees. Businesses are run so that the shareholders make money, whether it is a sole trader in business on his/her own or a multinational PLC. Charities are slightly different, but are still run to make a profit albeit that it is invested in the good cause (or should be, at least).

So why should docks and shipping companies be any different.

Of course, for the business to be most profitable, it is in their interest to look after their customers and their staff as best possible, including adherence to health and safety legislation.

However, the creation of more jobs for the sake of the local community is a narrow minded approach and it is not sustainable in the long term.

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BlueSkyNick

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Re: Socialist claptrap

OH NO!! Please don't associate me with that lot, Ken - please, please....! I'll delete my post if I have to. Anything!

Nearly as bad as being called a 'stinkie'.

I hope you don't punish me by putting me on a boat to Cherbourg with a full holding tank, or similar.



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claymore

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Was the situation different

In Liverpool?
My perception, rightly or probably wrongly in the light of Kens post is that it was short sighted militant dockers who in effect closed the docks as their demands were unrealistic and the business went elsewhere?
I rather lumped it together with the activities of Red Robbo and the car workers who also seemed to stuff our car manufacturing business - I know this is probably unfair and the reason was probably more closesly aligned with the Japanese bike and then car manufacturers embracing the principles of TQM and producing a better bike or car.

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