Help with US sports cruiser manufacturer pecking order

[ontheplane]

No - Petrol on the marinas back then (if you could find it!) was around 90p per litre (there or thereabouts) - so more like 200-230 litres.

The boat didn't like less than 22kts used to try and fall off the plane or ride very bow up all the time. So I used to run at around 25kts - used to burn around 12-14 gal/hr (call it 55lit/hr) - that's only 4hrs cruising a day.

Don't believe ANYONE who tells you that a 5.7 engine will cruise at 4-5gal per hr, unless it's in a very light boat indeed - these big heavy cruisers (Rinker 260V - so nearly 28' overall and weighed around 2700kg) burn petrol at a frightening rate. The diesel with more torque will probably stay on the plane at lower speeds and so be more economical.

 

[ontheplane]

REALLY useful info here -

http://www.fourwinns.com/upload/Documents/Catalogs/1998/FastFacts_1998.pdf

Only manufacturer I've ever seen that quotes all this stuff, and it is eye opening..... Will vary boat to boat, but fuel burn if properly propped to max rev at max speed will be the same - just the speed at given revs will alter.

The Vista 258 (26' cruiser) with the 5.7 engine burns (give or take) at a 25kt (28mph) cruise 50 lit per hr - that will cost you at a marina price of £1.50 per litre around £70 per hr - rising to £120 per hr flat out....

From memory, the KAD 32 engine burns half that at cruise.....

 

[Nigelpickin]

While on the subject of fuel, the op would be wise to look for a boat with an accurate fuel guage..or the closest thing to it. Imvho and experience the American boats can have pretty lousy accuracy and thats if they even work. I ended up fitting an aftermarket...gave me far more confindence regarding what was in the tank...

 

[landlockedpirate]

REALLY useful info here -

http://www.fourwinns.com/upload/Documents/Catalogs/1998/FastFacts_1998.pdf

Only manufacturer I've ever seen that quotes all this stuff, and it is eye opening..... Will vary boat to boat, but fuel burn if properly propped to max rev at max speed will be the same - just the speed at given revs will alter.

The Vista 258 (26' cruiser) with the 5.7 engine burns (give or take) at a 25kt (28mph) cruise 50 lit per hr - that will cost you at a marina price of £1.50 per litre around £70 per hr - rising to £120 per hr flat out....

From memory, the KAD 32 engine burns half that at cruise.....

Good info, but not quite as useful as actually owning a Fourwinns with a 5.7GSi

I completely agree with your numbers, just argue that your estimate of hours run per day is over the top for the average user. How many people actually run for 4 hours a day at cruise every time they take the boat out ? I do some pretty big mileage, but my most expensive day ever was Spain to Menorca and that was only 270L, the average over the whole period of ownership was 23L a day.

I have absolutely no argument that the S28 is an excellent boat and i'm sure the it would suit the OP really well and of course diesel will be more economical that petrol. When I eventually give up trailboating I think an S34 or a T34 will be my next boat, both of which will have twin diesels.

Jokes aside, I didnt actually think I was ranting, just making a point that a single petrol engine American sportscruiser is a viable boat to buy for 1000's of people.

 

[James L]

Diesel is a lot more economical, in fact I don't think I pay much more to run my 35' twin diesel flybridge than I used to pay to run my 23' petrol sports cruiser.
However that can be very misleading, generally small boats aren't used to do long runs, most of my spins were maybe 5 or 6 miles in each direction, stop for some food, drink etc and then head home.
Or maybe spend half an hour tearing around the place at full speed, great fun, but the total hours are relatively low.

A 20 - 25 foot petrol boat is easy to handle, cheap to store if you have space for a trailer and easy to service. If you want to do long trips it's the wrong boat, but for most people starting out you could do a lot worse.
If you get a boat you can't handle you'll very quickly get fed up of boating. Plus you only need to pay for the petrol you use, once you need a marina or boatyard to store a boat there's no way to reduce those bills until you can sell it.

It's relatively cheap to keep boats here, but I've still spent 3 or 4 times more on boatyard and servicing fees than I did on Diesel this year (small babies = not much boating), plus I need to budget for 4 new propellors this winter.

Get a boat you're comfortable with and fits your criteria, we all have our own opinions, personally I think you should buy a 50' trawler yacht and skip all those upgrades
Odds are you will upgrade in 2 or 3 years, or just sell the boat, you won't know what kind of boating you want to do until you get out there, might be a 15' punt is your ideal boat. Buying a bigger boat now won't really change that as you'd just be looking for a 30 something foot boat next.
I started with a 23' cruiser and moved to a 35', however if we had spent our time just dayboating I would have bought a 20' Rib instead. I had no way to know what I would enjoy until I was out there.

 

[James L]

Sorry Mark, I seem to have duplicated most of your post there.

btw I used to own a SeaRay 230 Sundancer - thought it was a great boat in good weather.
Seemed very well built.
In a following sea you really had to keep the power on to make sure you weren't pushed around the place, in a head sea just trim down and batter on through the waves, just keep your head below the windscreen
In beam seas it was a tall boat and you could feel it, needed to keep on top of the trim tabs, but that's the price you need to pay for lots of accommodation in a small boat, but I think the more modern versions have a bit more beam so probably not as much of an issue.

 

[Dorset Dan]

Well, looks like the Regal is out of the running for us.

The broker has informed us of two more viewings since Sunday and an offer within 7.5% of the asking price which has been declined! I won't even try to compete at those levels.......surely they would have priced it higher if the vendor was looking to only accept the asking price (or near as dammit)?

I've notified the broker of my interest and have asked to be kept in the loop if these initial offers do not proceed (and whilst I have no reason at all to distrust the broker, I have dealt with plenty of estate agents and car salesmen to know that certain tactics can be deployed to squeeze an increased offer from an interested buyer).

 

[EugeneR]

I owned a 26' boat in the late 90's with a 5.7 engine and the fuel costs just crippled me. I was spending £200 a day just going for a little run - a decent cruise would cost more than that. It took the fun out.

Modern petrols are much more efficient. We spent from £80 to £120 for a weekend around the Solent with the Bayliner 285, maybe Portsmouth to Newtown and Cowes, or similar. With the twin diesel 38ft, it costs me more.

I don't "dis" petrol boats, but fwiw and in my opinion, petrol is for up to 20-22' - and borderline up to 25' - beyond that you need a hell of a running budget, live in the states or just crave speed above all else.

If you cannot afford £100 a weekend, do not buy a motorboat...

I also think the S28 is a stunning boat, and £40k for a twin diesel is a good price - it will save you a boat change, although it's too big to tow, so you will increase your berthing and servicing costs over a 25' boat that you intend to tow for example.....

S28 is great unless you want something newer, more modern. And, depending on what you are looking at / want, with more space. A lot of people prefer "as new" boats, rarher than having to deal with the ongoing maintenance on a 10+ year old boat. As I said, it's down to personal taste.

 

[U4]

S28 is great unless you want something newer, more modern. And, depending on what you are looking at / want, with more space. A lot of people prefer "as new" boats, rarher than having to deal with the ongoing maintenance on a 10+ year old boat. As I said, it's down to personal taste.

Ummm?..? But In the context of this post, the OP has been looking at boats ranging from 2003 to 2008 so clearly is not looking for an 'as new' boat? Unless I am missing something?

 

[U4]

One boat that hasn't been mentioned is a Doral 250... Could be worth a look.

 

[GrahamHR]

We ran a couple of 23 -25 ft Four Winns boats from 2001, the latter from 2005. Both 5.7 fuel injected petrol engines, totally reliable. The later boat with multipoint EFi and more HP (5.7GXi) was better on fuel than the earlier throttle body injection one (5.7GSi) in the lighter boat. By all accounts on the Four Winns owners website, the cruisers with the 8.1 Gi/ GXi delivers similar economy at any given speed as the 5.7 ones due to different gearing, better acceleration due to the higher torque ; but clearly at the higher WOT speed, uses more. I doubt there's many, if any in the UK. We changed this year to a diesel powered Four Winns , primarily as I got fed up of lugging about 20l litre jery cans of petrol rather than the cost of the fuel itself.

 

[julians]

I owned a 21 foot sea ray from 2006 to 2013, it had the 5.0 mpi v8 petrol, at a cruise it would consume around 30-35 litres per hour, we typically did about 50 hours per year, i didnt think the fuel bills were crippling.

Now I have a 25 foot windy with a single volvo d4 diesel, its about 40% cheaper in fuel for the same sort of usage, I see the fuel costs as a bit of a bargain compared to the sea ray. I should mention that this is in the med where diesel is a bit cheaper than petrol.

Maintenance wise its about the same cost as the sea ray, mooring costs the same (it fits on the same mooring), so all in the bigger boat is costing significantly less. If id had to go up a mooring size or if the new boat had 2 engines then the costs would be substantially more.

 

[gjgm]

I only visit Cobbs occasionally, but if I was to be based there I would take a good look at what height passes under the closed bridges (might mean lower tides on the old one) and make that part of the consideration. Planning everything around two bridge times doesn't sound like alot of fun.

 

[Dorset Dan]

I only visit Cobbs occasionally, but if I was to be based there I would take a good look at what height passes under the closed bridges (might mean lower tides on the old one) and make that part of the consideration. Planning everything around two bridge times doesn't sound like alot of fun.

Yes, it is something to consider. As a novice I don't fancy being in the holding area between the two bridges on a very busy day trying to avoid colliding into some much more expensive boats(!) so if we can squeeze under then all the better. Trouble is, berthing fees are much more expensive up towards the chain ferry from what I gather, or even at Lake Yard on the other side at Hamworthy.

A couple of boats at Southampton Boat Show last week had radar arches which dropped at the touch of a button which seemed handy but alas none of the older boats we have looked at have had this feature.

 

[Nick_H]

A couple of boats at Southampton Boat Show last week had radar arches which dropped at the touch of a button which seemed handy but alas none of the older boats we have looked at have had this feature.

It may not be an expensive mod, especially if there are already suitable joints between the topsides and arch mouldings. Do all of the boats you're looking at have radar arches?

 

[Dorset Dan]

No, not all have Radar arches but the majority seem to.

The one at the show I remember was on a Regal 28 Express and they called it 'power tower', seemed fairly robust: http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?ID=2693

 

[rhino_mac]

You'll most likely get under the bridges at mid tide and below without a radar arch in a 25-28' sportcruiser. The old bridge is the lowest - it's pretty close under that one if the tide is up. You'll probably have to drop your VHF aerial to get under.

You're unlikely to get into Lake Yard - it's expensive for a start and last time I checked the pontoons were fully booked although this was last year. They have swinging moorings I believe. Other options other side of the bridges are Parkstone Bay who have a very good dry "stack" (actually trailers and a mahoosive forklift) system which I used happily for two seasons. No drinking beer on the pontoon with this though and PB is tidal. They will tell you it's not an issue but if the channel is silted up you need at least 1m of tide to get in and then you have to be dead on or you're in the mud. Nice marina though - good facilities, nice people and Carl at Saltwater solutions is a good guy for repairs/servicing. If I buy another boat I'd seriously consider them again.

Other than that, you're into Salterns which is expensive, has good facilities (petrol and diesel) and isn't tidal. And it's in the middle of the harbour with good access to the mouth of the harbour. You can cut a deal with them sometimes so it's always worth a chat with them.

If you're insistent on Cobbs (or that side of the bridges due to cost) consider Davis's boatyard right next door. I think you still get a small discount on fuel at Cobbs if you berth there. Pontoons only there I believe - Cobbs have dry stack or pontoons.

 

[gjgm]

Yes, it is something to consider. As a novice I don't fancy being in the holding area between the two bridges on a very busy day trying to avoid colliding into some much more expensive boats(!) so if we can squeeze under then all the better. Trouble is, berthing fees are much more expensive up towards the chain ferry from what I gather, or even at Lake Yard on the other side at Hamworthy.

A couple of boats at Southampton Boat Show last week had radar arches which dropped at the touch of a button which seemed handy but alas none of the older boats we have looked at have had this feature.

Find out what the normal clearance is under the new bridge, because there might be a chance you will more or less always fit under..if so, then of course you are only restrained by the old bridge- again it might not need to open, you might fit under at half tides. Regulars might be able to comment, but the morning rush out from Cobbs is a sight to see, and the later afternoon frenzy by the quay on a summer afternoon as everyone jostles for pole position can be a bit irritating !
Or get a rib !

 

[beejay190]

Twin Sails Bridge - chart datum 4.6m

Poole Old Town Bridge - chart datum 4.1m

I reckon a Khamsin could glide under both bridges at almost any tide height

Red diesel at Cobbs 98p / litre based on 60/40 split for MDL berthholders.

 

[ontheplane]

Dunno if this is of any use (the list of boats you've given are mainly 4 berth, so this may be not of interest) - But it's been listed several times on eBay now, so owner must be keen to sell - it might be a dog of course, but doesn't seem a bad price to me?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WINDY-MIR...3865960?pt=UK_Power_Boats&hash=item35dc92a9e8

No link to seller - just caught my eye, as I'm sure you'd get your money back on something like this?