Help on VAT

[lw395]

VAT abroad

It's not HMCE you need to worry about on the whole, it's when you take the boat to France, they can demand proof of VAT paid. Particularly if you've come via the Channel Islands.

I would not buy a boat without a good paper trail, without legal advice.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

"It's also the case that UK authorities are only interested if they think that something is fishy though the HMC&E do insist if you ask them that it's your responsibility to prove that VAT is not due on your boat if they believe it is"

When did the law change in the UK.

When I lived in the UK the CPS had to prove you had broken the law (contravened the VAT act), not you have to prove that you have not.

Obviously you have never had to deal with HMC&E when they think you owe them tax. It's very much a case of prove you dont owe it.

 

[Tranona]

It's not HMCE you need to worry about on the whole, it's when you take the boat to France, they can demand proof of VAT paid. Particularly if you've come via the Channel Islands.

I would not buy a boat without a good paper trail, without legal advice.

As noted earlier, this is overhyped. There is no credible evidence that French authorities are interested in VAT for a UK boat. If your Bill of Sale is in the UK then they know that any VAT issues are UK responsibility. They have got better things to do than worry about VAT on private boats.

However, they will be more searching with boats coming from the Channel Islands for obvious reasons - there is more temptation for a non VAT paid boat from there to do more than just visit. It is the same in Italy where there are borders with non-EU countries.

Don't know how "legal advice" would help. It is not illegal not to have proof of VAT as an individual. It is almost impossible for a VAT offence to be committed by an individual unless the individual has personally imported the boat from outside the EU. So a UK boat with a clear history of being purchased from a private resident has no problems. HMRC tell you the only evidence that they accept showing that VAT has been paid is the original invoice. They say this because there is no other evidence other than the sellers records and they only have to keep them for 6 years. However, the need to show that proof is if HMRC believes a VAT offence has been committed. See above.

Anyway, I am repeating myself now, so time to go to bed.

 

[rogerthebodger]

"Obviously you have never had to deal with HMC&E"

My company deal with the customs & excise departments of various countries around the world so I think I have quite alot of experence in that area. SARS have a simular aproch but when challanged, as I have done in the past, tend to back down . They all try it on as they consider they have the power over you and it takes alot of effort to challange the taxman so most peoplw take the easy route and just pay up.

 

[Mavis]

Dare I ask then the difference between a second hand boat and a second hand car. You never have to pay VAT on a second hand car and never even think about asking for the original vat receipt. On a van or other commercial vehicle yes, but not on a private car. I have taken my car to France on several occasions and have never been asked to show a vat receipt either so whats the difference ??

 

[westernman]

Dare I ask then the difference between a second hand boat and a second hand car. You never have to pay VAT on a second hand car and never even think about asking for the original vat receipt. On a van or other commercial vehicle yes, but not on a private car. I have taken my car to France on several occasions and have never been asked to show a vat receipt either so whats the difference ??

There isn't.

Except that the car's chassis number is in the police's computer system and in no time at all they can know its entire history.

No such system is in place for boats.

 

[Tranona]

In principle there is no difference. However, the EU regulations do make a distinction, specifically stating that free movement of boats in the EU is dependent on evidence of VAT. Thankfully common sense has prevailed and there is little evidence that anybody is bothered where a boat is clearly owned by a private EU resident..

However, given that boats are very mobile and difficult to trace (at least in the UK where there is no compulsory registration) there is concern (rightly) about boats being used in the EU coming from outside without paying VAT. This concern is greater where EU countries are close to non-EU (eg France and Channel Islands, Italy and Croatia) or where there is a substantial price differential of used boats between countries (eg USA and Europe).