Heaving to in a Storm

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In really heavy stuff I've always thought I'd run before the wind under bare poles towing one of the above to prevent dangerous surfing. Presumably that would require someone on the tiller to maintain course downwind? It would seem safer to go and wedge yourself down below with a good book and a bucket...

Current sailing with kiddies includes no going out in over a force 3... :) ... don't need to buy one of these any time soon.
 
But if a long advert, seabrake can do anything!

I have, on a number of occasions, thrown a bucket over the side of a boat to get some water. At only 3kn if it catches rather than just dunks, it could rip your arm off. I wonder just what the force would be on a line going to a large drogue on a 40 foot boat running before a force 10.
 
pmagowan said:
But if a long advert, seabrake can do anything!

I have, on a number of occasions, thrown a bucket over the side of a boat to get some water. At only 3kn if it catches rather than just dunks, it could rip your arm off. I wonder just what the force would be on a line going to a large drogue on a 40 foot boat running before a force 10.
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I think that is why the jorden system is preferred or even a long loop. It will be more kindly and smother to the fittings. Have a look at kite tails, length and wind resistance is what you want.
 
pmagowan said:
But if a long advert, seabrake can do anything!
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I understand it would make a fetching hanging basket too! When the heavy weather comes, chuck it and the chrysanthemums over the side and have your arm ripped off?

Yup, you would need plenty of faith in your aft cleats as you sheer across the waves, presumably it has a tripping line? Sounds like lots of stuff to get wrapped around your rudder/prop...
 
In any debate about the relative merits of one big drogue or parachute versus a series of smaller drogues it's worth noting why the 'bucket thrown in in only 3 knots' nearly pulls your arm off. It's not because the steady-state force of dragging a bucket in 3 knots is very much at all: probably only about 5.5kg which will hardly pull your arm off. It's because of the snatch load caused by having to accelerate very suddenly the 16kg or so of water it contains.

Why this is relevant to drogues is that if one compares one x 1m diameter parachute to a series of a hundred x 10cm diameter cones the steady braking forces as a function of boat speed are pretty much identical, but the single parachute will trap 1/2 a tonne of water whereas the set of 100 smaller drogues will trap only about 50kg, hence snatch loads are ten times bigger, and thus strain on cleats etc ten times bigger with the single parachute style 'sea anchor'.

I believe this is the primary reason that many prefer the Jordan style drogues: not that anyone's web site will be that honest (or maybe they're just innumerate).
 
Vegable said:
Thanks everyone for your replys.
I think it might be a good idea this year to practise heaving-to with different sail combinations and really see what happens. I tend to be a fair weather sailor, but as I'm starting to go further afield - last year Faroes, next year Iceland being prepared for adverse weather might be one of my better ideas!
ps. Hi Robert, now you've conquered UK mainland how about a circumnavigation of the Islands of Britain? Fairly easy for you, nip up to the Orkney's, on to Shetland, down to the Hebrides round Ireland and then back to Ault Bay for tea collecting Skye as you go past.....simples! :encouragement:
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Nah! Don't fancy all that Atlantic stuff, especially lee shores with few bolt holes. Not so bad with a crew, but as a solo-sailor I like my nights in calm waters at anchor.
Best of luck with your northern stuff
 
I find that I need to roll up a good bit of genoa and pull in the mainsheet a bit to get a correct heading to wind, but then I'm actually sailing. I keep playing with sail balance, but not quite happy hove to yet. While I manage in lightish winds, I'm not sure how I'd fare in the stronger stuff.......
 
>The sheer force of trailing gear can be dangerous to deploy, retrieve and manage. He points out that the recommended methods of doing so safely involves a complex technique and harness system which most small yachts do not have. Also that many small yachts have cleats of insufficient strength to survive the forces that would need to be handled.

Drogues and parachute anchors are made in different sizes for the size and weight of a boat so the AWB kit has much lower loads than a heavy displacement boat thus the different forces are not dangerous to any boat's cleats from an AWB to a heavy displacenment boat. The harness system he mentions is you attach and rope that is run around the bows in a loop. The bow rope is fed throuh the eye of the rope that leads to the para anchor/drogues before the bow rope is put on the second cleat. We had a heavy displacement boat so our set up was rope, chain in water hose, rope. Retrieving a para anchor is easy wait until the bad weather stops and pick up the small fender that is attached to the crown of the parachute. I don't know what the system is to pick up drogues but there must be one, does anybody here know?

If you want to see the different sizes of parachute anchor it's here: http://www.paraanchor.com.au/survival-series.html We had an 18 foot diameter one. There are also different sized drogues you can look up.

The issue with heaving to is the boat may turn paralllel to wind, the boat will roll if the wave is the same height as the boat's beam. We were beam reaching and the wind was picking to the extent the waves would soon reach our beam width so we started reaching with the waves on the quarter and changing course every 35NMs.
 
Learn from the seagull !

I watched a seagull on my neighbour's sloping roof up to unusual antics...
It climbed up to the crest repeatedly and slid down feet first on its bottom.
He did it thee times so he obviously liked it.:D

But from the antics of this bird there is a lot for all of you to learn......
 
Neil said:
And whatever happened to a sea anchor off the bow - head to wind and hiding below decks?
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Seems to work better for Catamarans.
Maybe because on the bow they can lead a much wider Bridle?

Video of a Catamaran lying to a sea anchor in a storm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUQ5sdEzOko

And a good video of James Baldwin going offshore to test his series drogue. Not survival conditions, but the waves look as big as in any of ming mings videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUfHUGHwdaw
 
KellysEye said:
The issue with heaving to is the boat may turn paralllel to wind, the boat will roll if the wave is the same height as the boat's beam.
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I think you mean at right angles to the wind (or parallel to the waves).
And the boat may roll if struck by a breaking wave equal to the beam (although you sometimes see the figure 1.5 times the beam). The figures result from tank tests.
 
[QUOTE=Kelly's Eye

"the boat will roll if the wave is the same height as the boat's beam"

I am not too sure about that. Isn't it a matter of the slope angle of the wave ? Waves do not all have the same steepness; wind against tide produces asymmetrical slopes for instance.
 
With my current yacht (fin keeled and skeg supported rudder) I have tried to heave to in 35 knot winds using deep reefed main and stay sail but find she will not settle for long and makes too much headway running out out of the slick. Tried loads of adjustments but could not get it right. This year I plan to try again but this time have a drag device angled of the bow hopefully to hold the head up. On a previous yacht coming back from the Azores we got caught out in 60K winds for nearly 30 hours and started out using a try sail to heave to but found head would fall away so put up triple reefed main and she sat very well but the odd big wave caught us out and at these times felt as if we were underwater rather than on it. At one pretty bad period in the storm we felt like some exercise and set up the para anchor along with 300m of 18mm line in the cockpit ready to deploy of the bow but decided that it would be crazy to launch an 18' parachute in those conditions with the danger of the line snagging the yacht or worse maybe one of us. All the information about being prepared and using these devices early is to be recommended. Jordon drogue types seem to be more popular these day deployed of the stern, has anyone tried them from the bow whilst hove to with a snubber line to adjust angle of the bow?
 
sarabande said:
Kelly's Eye "the boat will roll if the wave is the same height as the boat's beam" I am not too sure about that. Isn't it a matter of the slope angle of the wave ? Waves do not all have the same steepness; wind against tide produces asymmetrical slopes for instance.[/QUOTE said:
Having the boat rolled by a wave is easier than one might think.I once sailed my 30 footer through the waves caused by a sandbank and one that wasn't particularly steep came form the windward side and as the boat sailed on it's slope the mast nearly touched the water.It wouldn't have taken much more to capsize the boat.
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bluevelvet said:
Jordon drogue types seem to be more popular these day deployed of the stern, has anyone tried them from the bow whilst hove to with a snubber line to adjust angle of the bow?
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With the normal setting the Jordan drogue will let you sail 2 or maybe 3 knots. Imagine that going backwards! I think there will be a big risk of damaging your rudder.
 
bluevelvet said:
With my current yacht (fin keeled and skeg supported rudder) I have tried to heave to in 35 knot winds using deep reefed main and stay sail but find she will not settle for long and makes too much headway running out out of the slick. Tried loads of adjustments but could not get it right. This year I plan to try again but this time have a drag device angled of the bow hopefully to hold the head up. On a previous yacht coming back from the Azores we got caught out in 60K winds for nearly 30 hours and started out using a try sail to heave to but found head would fall away so put up triple reefed main and she sat very well but the odd big wave caught us out and at these times felt as if we were underwater rather than on it. At one pretty bad period in the storm we felt like some exercise and set up the para anchor along with 300m of 18mm line in the cockpit ready to deploy of the bow but decided that it would be crazy to launch an 18' parachute in those conditions with the danger of the line snagging the yacht or worse maybe one of us. All the information about being prepared and using these devices early is to be recommended. Jordon drogue types seem to be more popular these day deployed of the stern, has anyone tried them from the bow whilst hove to with a snubber line to adjust angle of the bow?
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This is the thing that would concern me. A tired crew under assault from the elements trying to deploy one of these things sounds very dangerous to me. Sometimes it is better the devil you know and in this case it would be to battle on without the unknown response to a parachute.
 
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