Heaving to in a Storm

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Vegable

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The very interesting link to the Drag Device Database website on the "Drogue, Parachutes and other devices" topic has set me thinking.
The worst winds I've ever been out in are 6s gusting to 7 so I've no real experience to fall back on. On the website it clearly favours lying bow-to to the waves and wind, and that lying a-hull and beam-on to the seas is dangerous. And one of the suggested recomendations if you don't have drogues etc is to heave-to.
However, when I heave-to (to do a minor repair, have a meal, take a rest etc.,etc) I'm very near to being beam-on to the seas. Am I heaving-to incorrectly, or is it that in stronger winds the boat's bow heads more upwind?
Mike
 
Vegable said:
However, when I heave-to (to do a minor repair, have a meal, take a rest etc.,etc) I'm very near to being beam-on to the seas. Am I heaving-to incorrectly, or is it that in stronger winds the boat's bow heads more upwind?
Mike
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You might find that you can heave-to at a slighty better angle by playing with the relative amounts of foresail and mainsail deployed. However, many modern boats tend to heave to in the way you describe.

Even with your current angle of heaving-to, I imagine you will find the motion of the boat much more gentle. Part of the benefit of heaving to is that the slick to windward that the boat leaves in the water tends to trip up waves and make them break before reaching the boat.

The '79 Fastnet enquiry took considerable trouble to investigate the effects of the various tactics employed by different boats. As you suggest, lying a-hull proved the most dangerous, but heaving-to wasn't hugely better. It's been suggested that it's only a prudent approach up to about F8.

On the whole, 'active' strategies worked better than passive. But...and it's a big but'..a) .those conditions were truly extreme, with huge breaking waves coming from all directions; b) so far as I recall, no boats deployed drogues or used similar tactics (partly, no doubt, because they were racing and 'not equipped to do so).
 
Heaving to is a useful technique and one that you should practice on your boat. Some boats do it well and some won't stay heaved to comfortably at all. The best for it a long keeled, fin or bilge keeler's are the worst. I've only tried it in moderate winds in my Mirage 28 and it took a bit of fiddling to get steady. I found that I could lie at about 40° to the wind and drift slowly downwind.
 
Vegable said:
The very interesting link to the Drag Device Database website on the "Drogue, Parachutes and other devices" topic has set me thinking.
The worst winds I've ever been out in are 6s gusting to 7 so I've no real experience to fall back on. On the website it clearly favours lying bow-to to the waves and wind, and that lying a-hull and beam-on to the seas is dangerous. And one of the suggested recomendations if you don't have drogues etc is to heave-to.
However, when I heave-to (to do a minor repair, have a meal, take a rest etc.,etc) I'm very near to being beam-on to the seas. Am I heaving-to incorrectly, or is it that in stronger winds the boat's bow heads more upwind?
Mike
Click to expand...

Older keel shapes hove to more bow-up, so it was a more useful technique for them.

I'd be wary about lying to anything over the bow - that means you're moving backwards, and that's liable to break the rudder.

Hence the current popularity of Jordan Series Drogues etc streamed over the stern.

Pete
 
LadyInBed said:
If I could add a supplementary Q to this (apologies to Mike)
With a Ketch, Mizzen up (sheeted in or out) or Mizzed down?
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With the caveat that I never sailed her in heavy weather, the mizzen was very useful in Kindred Spirit for adjusting the balance and hence the angle to the wind. I think I would have tried her with staysail and mizzen only, with the main safely stowed in its crutch.

Pete
 
Hi Mike,
Good to see you on here.
On my "trip around" last year I heaved-to a number of times. The only time I had trouble was off north Cornwall in about F5/6 NWly when the boat would not lie "to" but paid-off. I realised afterwards that I had too much jib out.
All other times were fine.

So I suppose my two-penneth echoes others who have said "heave-to with balanced sails, better than beam-on".

I have yet (and hope never to need to) to set my drogue, so answering from partial ignorance.

PS I needed your charts that day !! :encouragement: Inside passage around Land's End in big rollers needed great concentration on position of Kettle Bottom and Shark Fin !!!
 
I once had to heave to for a night on my Fulmar.With a mininmum of fuss she settled at a good angle relative to the seas and stayed that way.It was blowing a full gale,don't know the wind strength because my expensive raymarine has never worked properly.
I lashed the tiller with shockcord which allowed a bit of movement. Things were deceptively calm down below and the crew slept soundly. I peeped out of the companionway from time to time and roar of the wind was frightening.
 
macd said:
The '79 Fastnet enquiry took considerable trouble to investigate the effects of the various tactics employed by different boats. As you suggest, lying a-hull proved the most dangerous, but heaving-to wasn't hugely better. It's been suggested that it's only a prudent approach up to about F8.
Click to expand...

I remember reading no boat was lost in the Fastnet that hove too. Could not remember were I had read it. I had a quick look in "Heavy weather sailing" by Adlard Coles. One bit says 26 boat hove too and there is no report on how they fared.
 
I have the opposite situation to the OP: my boat, a twin-keeled Hunter Channel 31, heaves to very close to the wind. I'd guess about 20 degrees off, and I always fear that a big wave could knock the bow round through the wind and she'd start sailing. It hasn't happened yet but then I've never hove to in seriously big waves.
 
BlackPig said:
I remember reading no boat was lost in the Fastnet that hove too.
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Not many boats were actually lost in that Fastnet (5 of 303), whatever their tactics, although quite a few were mislaid for a while after being abandoned. (The big lesson, you'll probably remember, was "always step up to a liferaft".) However, plenty of boats (77 according to Wiki, hove-to and otherwise) suffered 360 degree rolls, quite a few more than once. The enquiry was quite clear that heaving-to in those conditions (F11 or thereabouts, huge and hugely confused seas) was not the best strategy. In the sort of heavy conditions most of us might encounter, heaving to seems to be realistic, at least to F8. My original point was that it is not universally so and, addressing the OP's mention of drogues, that ultimately they might be the better option.

P.S. Wiki's assertion that "Not one of the hove to yachts were capsized or suffered any serious damage", attributed to the Pardys, is at odds with my recollection of the official enquiry. However, it is many years since I read it.

P.P.S. Here you go, from the report, under 'Tactics during the storm':
Insufficient evidence has emerged to indicate the best tactics to guarantee survival in very severe conditions where there
is a lack of conformity between wind and sea directions. There is however a generai inference that active rather then passive tactics were successful and those who were able to maintein some speed and directional control fared better.

The report in full can be found here: http://www.yachting.org.au/sport-services/safety/major-incident-reports/1979-fastnet/

Many of the competitors spoke of the advantage of being able to steer away from the worst waves (an ability much compromised at night). Vessels which ran (rather than reached) under storm rig seem to have fared particularly well. Unfortunately such sails were then not mandated and many vessels lacked them.
 
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What is the best action then? Surely there comes a point (where the boat may roll etc) that it becomes prudent to batten down the hatches and squeeze yourself into a position down below where you will survive a roll. Active control of the boat becomes impossible at some stage. Is the alternative to set a drogue, bare polls and get down below? I am always surprised that many blue water cruisers and boats that go out in bad weather have very little design to help survive a roll. They have stuff able to fly everywhere, as the YM crash boat test showed. If everything is stowed fast then you should be able to strap yourself in and survive anything other than a sinking.
 
pmagowan said:
What is the best action then? Surely there comes a point (where the boat may roll etc) that it becomes prudent to batten down the hatches and squeeze yourself into a position down below where you will survive a roll. Active control of the boat becomes impossible at some stage. Is the alternative to set a drogue, bare polls and get down below? I am always surprised that many blue water cruisers and boats that go out in bad weather have very little design to help survive a roll. They have stuff able to fly everywhere, as the YM crash boat test showed. If everything is stowed fast then you should be able to strap yourself in and survive anything other than a sinking.
Click to expand...

I believe this is the tactic used by most "Jester" boats.
 
Vegable said:
The very interesting link to the Drag Device Database website on the "Drogue, Parachutes and other devices" topic has set me thinking.
The worst winds I've ever been out in are 6s gusting to 7 so I've no real experience to fall back on. On the website it clearly favours lying bow-to to the waves and wind, and that lying a-hull and beam-on to the seas is dangerous. And one of the suggested recomendations if you don't have drogues etc is to heave-to.
However, when I heave-to (to do a minor repair, have a meal, take a rest etc.,etc) I'm very near to being beam-on to the seas. Am I heaving-to incorrectly, or is it that in stronger winds the boat's bow heads more upwind?
Mike
Click to expand...

I've a nic26 - long keel with cut away forefoot. To heave to with the bow about 35-45 degrees off the wind I have to roll away a lot of the headsail but it does work (well enough to take a break or reef the mainsail). She does fore-reach at about a knot and a bit but is basically happy. I've not tried this in real stormy conditions only up to F6/7.
 
Interestingly I have watched the YM storm sailing techniques videos on Youtube and also read Skipp Novaks articles online. He makes some reasonable points regarding the potential risks of trailing gear. Despite sailing in extreme conditions he says he has never tried it, preferring to sail before the wind or heave to. The sheer force of trailing gear can be dangerous to deploy, retrieve and manage. He points out that the recommended methods of doing so safely involves a complex technique and harness system which most small yachts do not have. Also that many small yachts have cleats of insufficient strength to survive the forces that would need to be handled.

I would be interested to hear of anyone having direct experience of using these techniques. I have heaved to before but not because of storms. The winds I have been out in, steady 9 gusting higher, I have always been able to run before the wind or at an angle where it was possible to make for shelter. I have been a bit worried about the ability to turn into shelter due to the fear of going side on and I was seriously considering continueing to run before the wind even though I was getting exhausted. In the end my boat proved it could handle it quite well and the fear turned quickly to relief. I was, on that occasion, strapped to the mainsheet traveller with the tiller between my legs, so I could not have been washed over but would have struggled with a roll.
 
BlackPig said:
pmagowan look at Rodger Taylor (not the drummer from Queen) A simple sailor he is a Jester has 3 books out about small boat sailing and some vids on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED9Hxe6qZo8 look up Mingming. He has been rolled of Greenland and also used a jordan drogue system for real. You may be able to talk in the Jester section on here.
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Thanks, will do. Mingming comes up regularly on the types of searches I do on google!
 
Had a look at Mingming again. Might not be as relevant to the circa 40 foot type of sailing vessel as Mingming is only 20 foot long. I suspect the gear for a heavier C40 foot yacht is likely to be harder to handle. In any case Mingming lost her drogues due to chaffing. I suppose it simply highlights that different methods may be preferable for different boats.
 
Thanks everyone for your replys.
I think it might be a good idea this year to practise heaving-to with different sail combinations and really see what happens. I tend to be a fair weather sailor, but as I'm starting to go further afield - last year Faroes, next year Iceland being prepared for adverse weather might be one of my better ideas!
ps. Hi Robert, now you've conquered UK mainland how about a circumnavigation of the Islands of Britain? Fairly easy for you, nip up to the Orkney's, on to Shetland, down to the Hebrides round Ireland and then back to Ault Bay for tea collecting Skye as you go past.....simples! :encouragement:
 
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