Heating fuel for diesel

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Can I use central heating oil to run my Eventide's 1GM10 Yanmar, perhaps with the addition of 5% lubricating oil? Red diesel is awkward to locate, 15 miles up the Tamar, but I have 500 gallons of heating fuel. This has further relevance, as I plan to build a home generator, diesel powered. Thanks.
 
G

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I've always understood that red diesel IS central heating oil. The only reason to add the paraffin is to prevent waxing at low winter temperatures, though no doubt someone else will give us a definitive answer.
 

Geoffs

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I hope I’m not teaching anyone to suck eggs here, but there’s quite a lot in diesel fuel technology. The basic combustion characteristic of the fuel is measured by Cetane number, just as you have Octane number for petrol (although they are quite different). A good diesel will have a Cetane number of about 50. As the cetane number lowers, the combustion is poorer and exhaust smokier. The cut from the refinery that makes up diesel fuel is known as Gas Oil.

There is a difference between diesel gas oil and heating gas oil. Heating gas oil generally has a lower Cetane number, and whilst it will run an engine, it will produce more smoke. Shell used designate their gas oil for engines as ‘GAS OIL CI’, I’ve always assumed the CI stood for compression ignition. The red dye is added to make a clear distinction with DERV. The Gas Oil supply chain can be complex, and I have a suspicion that some of the cheaper diesel you see is heating oil.

There are two types of heating oil generally used. One, for vapourising burners, is basically paraffin (kerosene). THIS IS DEFINETLY NO GOOD for diesel engines. Gas Oil, with red dye, is used in larger pressure jet burners (plus a few other types).

So to sum up, you can use heating gas oil in engines, but it may be smokier. There may be issues with sulphur content. Sulphur is bad for emissions, but good for lubricating the injection pump. I don’t think I’d put lubricating oil in the fuel, not likely to help pump lubrication, and may bung up injectors something ‘orrible.

DEPSOL’s additive Soltron, may act as a Cetane improver, but if and how, I’m not sure. Hope this helps a bit.
 

Sammy

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Simply answer,
Yes normal central heating oil for pressure jet burners is fine 35 Redwood scale I think is the grade.
Have run a fleet of boats on it for years.
 

Solwaycruiser

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I have made this enquiery on more than one occasion from various local fuel distributers as I have heard the various stories. I am consistently told by all of them that there is only one red product available. There are two types of heating fuel but if it is red then it is the same as the diesel from the pumps at the retail outlet. It hasn't done my engine any damage, so far!
 
G

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This question comes up at least once very six months.

A "diesel engine" will run on almost anything that will ignite under compression. The substances range from methanol all the way to vegetable oil. However, I don't recommend either!!

"White" diesel oil - also called DERV (Diesel Engine Road Vehicle) is just plain diesel.

"Red" diesel oil - sometimes called Gas Oil or Gas Oil CI (compression ignition) is just plain diesel but with a red dye added.

The two products are identical - except for the dye. The dye is added so that the Inland Revenue can fine you multi-bucks if they find any red dye inside the fuel tank of a vehicle used on the road.

Diesel fuel is blended to a specific ISO (International Standards Organisation) or BSI (British Standards Institute) Standard.

The ISO/BSI Standard lays down a variety of requirements which include:

o Cloud Point (the temperature at which waxes in the fuel will start to precipitate out).

o Pour Point (the temperature at which the product will solidify).

o Flash Point (the temperature at which the fuel will give off flammable vapours).

o Initial boiling Point (the temperature at which the fuel will start to boil).

o Final Boiling Point (the temperature at which all of the fuel has boiled away).

o Residue (the amount of stuff left after the liquids have been boiled off at atmospheric pressure - i.e. the gunge that will be left in the cylinder after the dieself fuel has been burned - these are usually ashphaltenes and heavy tars).

o Ash Content (how much solid materials are left when all of the residue has been burned - i.e. the noncombustible materials that get left behind in the cylinder to scratch the cylinder walls these are usually heavy metals and sulphur).

o Viscosity (the ability for the diesel to flow and thereby an indication of how it will atomise in the injectors).

o Specific Gravity (how much it weighs relative to water).

o Cetane Number (the ability to "burn" under compression as opposed to "explode" and cause knocking).

Plus a few other things that I can't remember.

The fuel is blended from a variety of base products which are either natural distillates from crude oil or have been produced by processes known as "cracking", "treating" or "reforming".

So - the finest minds at BP, Shell and ExxonMobil get together with the finest minds at Yanmar, Mitsubishi and Caterpillar and by a series of tests and trials discover THE product that fulfils all the requirements of the ISO and BSI Standards AND keeps the engine running in reasonable shape.

Then along comes jolly jack tar who knocks up his own brew from a mixture of heating oil and paraffin (with a few litres of lube oil thrown in for good measure) and lo and behold the engine "runs like a dream - but a bit smoky".

Granted - SOME diesel oils will fit SOME heating oil specifications but the reverse is not to be expected.

i.e. A bit of residual tar burned to a solid ash in a boiler is no big deal so the specification for residual tars and ash can be higher for heating oil. If a diesel oil has a low ash content it will obviously fulfil the heating oil specifications.

On the other hand - a bit of tar clogging the inlet and exhaust valves of an engine and a bit of ash grinding away at the cylinders will soon cause wear in an engine. So the tar and ash contents of diesel fuel are critical specifications and LESS than that required for heating oil.

Another element is that some diesel fuels have additives that are not included in heating oils. "Lubrizol" (added at 50 parts per million) is an example. It is added after blending. The additive helps to lubricate the cylinder walls. It's expensive stuff and because heaters don't have cylinders then heating oils don't have Lubrizol added either.

I think what I am trying to say is I wouldn't touch heating oil with a barge pole.

At the last check a replacement engine for my boat would cost between £8,000 and £10,000. There is no way I am going to risk knackering an engine for the sake of saving a few £££'s on fuel costs.

Hope this helps.

Ian D
 

brianhumber

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Just to say when I worked for an Oil Major there was little difference in Specs between Heating Gas Oil and Road Gas Oil.
Marine Diesel Oil was and is another matter. You could not run a Deltic on class 2 but a Cat or Paxman would run quite happy for 1,000s of hours on it. The Cummins was another delicate design. Unless you have marinised a high tech high revving fuel rail motor car engine you should have no trouble in using Heating Gas Oil.
 

eddieperkins

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Nick,
Just to add my twopeny worth. I live on a converted Dutch barge and use red diesel for heating. I also use it for the Barge engine and for my cruiser. I have therefore fitted a pressure jet boiler suitable for 35 second oil and buy Marine Diesel from the distributer. They, however, maintain that there is no difference between the 35 second heating oil and Marine diesel, they are the same product. If your heater runs or 28 sec oil (Parraffin) I would have it converted to run on 35 sec and you should have no problems, I dont!!.
Regards,

Eddie
 

Freebee

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Just to throw in my two penneth. The MOD especially the US DOD run all thier engines with a dual fuel concept. ie they will use either Diesel or avaition kerosene. In the UK I have supplied Lombardini engines to MOD and the only change that was made was to the fuel rack to feed more kerosene to obtain the same power as diesel.
 
G

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I live on an island on west coast of Scotland, when the road tanker delivers red diesel , it can be called farm diesel, marine gas oil, 35 sec heating oil, is all out same tank on lorry. 35 sec heating oil is red diesel, thats what I use for my boiler and goes into my boat as well.
Some people use kero for there heating boilers but that is 28 sec oil, which I would not put in to engines in boats.
Todays price for red diesel delivered on to island 20.1 pence per litre.for 1000 litre delivery.
 
G

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The actual specifications for Diesel etc. are for example :

EN590
E10

etc.

Lubrizol is a trade name and only one of the many LUBRICITY agents that are now introduced to European Spec diesels, since the reduction of sulphur etc.

Ian has indicated a lot of specs. and details which are generally correct, but don't run away with the Standards etc. as they are actually not all applicable .... I worked for BSI, I have managed Petrochemical labs for years, I run chemical additive business for precisely these factors ......

Do us a favour .... don't put 'crap' in a perfectly good engine. If you have a distnace problem for fuel .... get a trailer and a drum ... fill the drum and stand it nearer the boat for your wekkly top-ups etc. or just accept the problem of 15 miles up-river is cheaper than rebuilding a 'gunked-up' diesel.

Alternatively I could sell you various additives to try and keep your heating oil suitable .... BUT a) I wouldn't guarantee any product in that use, b) it would make the heating oil more expensive to use than the slog up-river + red diesel price !
 
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