Heads plumbing arrangement, sanity check please.

Daydream believer said:
I would have a valve on the bilge suction line & one on the sea cock. Then whichever you wanted to use is the one you open. However, with those valves are you happy that a visitor would not make a mistake.
Personally I cannot see the point & would just hook a proper pump to the bilge & pump it out, thus bye passing the heads. The benefit of fresh water to the heads can be solved by tipping some in the bowl if it is that important to you.
But i would also take time out to sort the leaks. Just because it is a wooden boat is no excuse for it to leak.
Click to expand...
The valves, whether two way or individual, would always be left open in the seawater position.
The bilge in question is amidships and I don't want to make a hole in the topsides for occasional bilge pumping.
And I have no excuse for a mast skirt which leaks in persistent rain. None.
 
I will rethink my arrangement, after all this mainly useful advice, and do another sketch later on.
I'm very glad I asked for a sanity check, I am not as sane as I fondly imagined..thanks all.
 
R.Ems said:
The valves, whether two way or individual, would always be left open in the seawater position.
The bilge in question is amidships and I don't want to make a hole in the topsides for occasional bilge pumping.
And I have no excuse for a mast skirt which leaks in persistent rain. None.
Click to expand...
If you are stuck for a mast skirt, have you considered the stuff they use for inflatable bouncy castles. I have a skirt on my rudder post fitted by the people who installed my new rudder. It wears very well & can be glued easily after being wrapped around the mast & fastened with 2 steel bands.
Re the bilges,One can just pump the water into the cockpit, if it is self draining. Alternatively use a fairly flexible outlet hose & place it over the side when you want to pump out.
 
Daydream believer said:
If you are stuck for a mast skirt, have you considered the stuff they use for inflatable bouncy castles. I have a skirt on my rudder post fitted by the people who installed my new rudder. It wears very well & can be glued easily after being wrapped around the mast & fastened with 2 steel bands.
Re the bilges,One can just pump the water into the cockpit, if it is self draining. Alternatively use a fairly flexible outlet hose & place it over the side when you want to pump out.
Click to expand...
Cheers for the tip. My midships bilges don't drain themselves aft unfortunately. Yes I have used all sorts of hoses over the side, and pumps over the years, just looking for a neat solution to coincide with the heads refit.
 
How about connecting the bilge hose to the pump that pumps water out rather than the pump that pumps water in. That would avoid the potential problem of filling the bilge with water from the inlet seawater hose because there would be an anti syphon loop between pump and seacock. Still not infallible though.
 
SlowlyButSurely said:
How about connecting the bilge hose to the pump that pumps water out rather than the pump that pumps water in. That would avoid the potential problem of filling the bilge with water from the inlet seawater hose because there would be an anti syphon loop between pump and seacock. Still not infallible though.
Click to expand...
Thanks, the trouble with that idea is that the pipes are much bigger, and the sewage discharge pump is part of the toilet. I can't type anymore this is my 3rd attempt, forum keeps crashing.
 
Not sure pumping bilge water through the loo is a good idea - and you still have to pump it out. If the objection is making a new outlet for the bilge pump, why not just put a Y valve in the outlet before the seacock and have a simple diaphragm pump to empty the bilge. No messing about with the toilet plumbing
 
Tranona said:
Not sure pumping bilge water through the loo is a good idea - and you still have to pump it out. If the objection is making a new outlet for the bilge pump, why not just put a Y valve in the outlet before the seacock and have a simple diaphragm pump to empty the bilge. No messing about with the toilet plumbing
Click to expand...
Cheers for the suggestions.
Could bilge water somehow damage the toilet?
The bilge suction will have a strum-box pick up on the end of the pipe, just a plastic thing from ASAP but it will filter out anything bigger than about 5mm from memory.
 
Last edited:
Tranona said:
Not sure pumping bilge water through the loo is a good idea - and you still have to pump it out. If the objection is making a new outlet for the bilge pump, why not just put a Y valve in the outlet before the seacock and have a simple diaphragm pump to empty the bilge. No messing about with the toilet plumbing
Click to expand...
The thing about this conversion is that in an emergency the pump should have a greater capacity than the heads pump & be more reliable as well . Except for the final outlet & we all know that sods law will dictate that one will need it when it blocks.

Whilst I have had a number of heads blockages over the years they have all been at the final sea cock. Putting a "Y" valve in the exit hose would, in my view, create another point for a potential blockage. So I would prefer to keep the exit as smooth as possible. That would mean I would tend to discount the idea. A better place would be the sink drain.

I still wonder what is wrong with a new outlet high up in the transon ( for instance) Simple to fit in a wooden hull & with a decent pump it gives a secure way of removing water from the bilge all the time rather than through a system that may well be blocked, or only delivering small quantities at a time.

I know that the OP has discounted a new outlet, but he could always re consider & it may mean no more work. Probably more cost though. It also makes me wonder if he actually has a bilge pump. Why does he need this?
 
Daydream believer said:
The thing about this conversion is that in an emergency the pump should have a greater capacity than the heads pump & be more reliable as well . Except for the final outlet & we all know that sods law will dictate that one will need it when it blocks.

Whilst I have had a number of heads blockages over the years they have all been at the final sea cock. Putting a "Y" valve in the exit hose would, in my view, create another point for a potential blockage. So I would prefer to keep the exit as smooth as possible. That would mean I would tend to discount the idea. A better place would be the sink drain.

I still wonder what is wrong with a new outlet high up in the transon ( for instance) Simple to fit in a wooden hull & with a decent pump it gives a secure way of removing water from the bilge all the time rather than through a system that may well be blocked, or only delivering small quantities at a time.

I know that the OP has discounted a new outlet, but he could always re consider & it may mean no more work. Probably more cost though. It also makes me wonder if he actually has a bilge pump. Why does he need this?
Click to expand...
Not an emergency pump, merely for nuisance water which collects in this particular spot with no limber holes. No sink. Yes she does have normal bilge pumps!
 
I would write more fully, but the forum keeps crashing and deleting my replies. Thanks for the suggestions anyway.
 
R.Ems said:
Cheers for the suggestions.
Could bilge water somehow damage the toilet?
The bilge suction will have a strum-box pick up on the end of the pipe, just a plastic thing from ASAP but it will filter out anything bigger than about 5mm from memory.
Click to expand...
Probably not unless it gets any oil in it but a 5mm bit of debris would not do your pimp valves any favours. I am all for trying to dual purpose things, but I think using 2 loo pumps to deal with potentially contaminated bilge water is a step too far. A simple Whale Gusher Urchin outputting via a Y valve in the toilet outlet seacock is a simple idiot proof solution.
 
Tranona said:
outputting via a Y valve in the toilet outlet seacock is a simple idiot proof solution.
Click to expand...
But, as I pointed out earlier, a "Y" valve will only create a possible extra blockage point. It is NOT idiot proof. Only needs to catch a small piece of bum fodder ( easily done if, mistakenly, not fully opened) & you can guess the rest.
I doubt that there are many forumites with a few years sailing under their belt who have not had their heads in the bilges unblocking the waste. If they have not, then they do not know what they have missed. One of the joys of sailing - so I am told :rolleyes:
 
Daydream believer said:
But, as I pointed out earlier, a "Y" valve will only create a possible extra blockage point. It is NOT idiot proof. Only needs to catch a small piece of bum fodder ( easily done if, mistakenly, not fully opened) & you can guess the rest.
Click to expand...

Why should it? Has the same bore as the hose. Plenty of holding tank systems use Y valves without problems. You could use the same argument for not having seacocks - no difference.
 
Tranona said:
Why should it? Has the same bore as the hose. Plenty of holding tank systems use Y valves without problems. You could use the same argument for not having seacocks - no difference.
Click to expand...
Well I do use the argument for sea cocks. I know from experience of several yachts that it is a potential blockage point. One cannot, sensibly, do away with the valve at the sea cock, so one has to deal with it. One CAN avoid a "Y" junction in the outlet hose from the heads. The bore is NOT really smooth. There is the change in diameter from fitting to pipe for a start. Simply because the fitting sits inside the pipe. So your comment was, in effect, missleading. Then there is the issue of the bend. It is not a straight run. Furthermore, it only takes a slight miss-alignment of the handle to spoil the alignment of the valve itself, within the bore.
 
Daydream believer said:
But, as I pointed out earlier, a "Y" valve will only create a possible extra blockage point. It is NOT idiot proof. Only needs to catch a small piece of bum fodder ( easily done if, mistakenly, not fully opened) & you can guess the rest.
I doubt that there are many forumites with a few years sailing under their belt who have not had their heads in the bilges unblocking the waste. If they have not, then they do not know what they have missed. One of the joys of sailing - so I am told :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Bum fodder ?
In the flushing water, whether from the ocean or the bilges . I hope not !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top