Heads filling with brown water?

[rotrax]

I left our Raritan full size toilet full of white vinegar over the winter. Put a full bowlful in, pumped out until at the bottom of the bowl, about thirty pumps. Experience tells me the outlet hose, right up to the seacock, is then full. I then shut the seacock, leaving the very mild acid to work for the next five months.

Re-commisioned the heads upon our return from NZ, no bad smells, pump action appears to be better and smoother than ever. As usual, the white vinegar has had a benificial effect.

During Covid we avoided Marina's and people where possible. To avoid filling with water more than necessary we became very prudent with its use and found a small plastic bowl that is a perfect fit in the heads sink. When washing, cleaning teeth etc., the water used is collected in this bowl. It holds about three litres. This captured water is then poured into the heads and gives a freshwater flush! The soap suds seem benificial too!

 

[lustyd]

Only saying as a new pump unit might be simpler for the OP to just bolt on . He can then dissemble and repair the original at leisure and have a spare unit for when the new one fails.

While I can see what you're getting at that's not the case. As you can see in the video, the pump unit attaches with 4 screws, the joker assembly 2. If you replace the pump you still need to either move the joker assembly or the hose, and it's significantly easier to move the assembly using the screws.

The flappy gasket under the top cover on the other hand is a nightmare, and the screws often snap their mounts when removed or tightened, so replacing that I'm with you on the new pump. That said, once you're in for a new pump assembly the whole toilet is only a little more cash and gives you a new seat, bowl and mount. I just replaced mine and found they've redesigned the bowl at some point in the last 20 years to have a much more effective spiral flush

 

[lustyd]

pump action appears to be better

They recommend vaseline for the pump shaft and seal. These can be removed by unscrewing the handle (literally lock the handle and keep turning) on the recent model pump.

 

[alahol2]

I know the moment has passed but...

Lavac does not have a joker valve, just a big Henderson Mk5 pump on the outlet side. (or white bodied equivalent).
I have had Lavacs on a number of boats and found them to be charterer proof, fitted a new one to my current boat and still with original pump parts and seat seals 13 years later. They seem to be far more efficient and user friendly than any other I have had the doubtfull pleasure of sailing with, provided that users actually use the pump as the designer intended.

Your mate's problem is most likely, (as mentioned above) insufficient flushing water being pumped through and seepage back from the pump and discharge hose.

Not wholly true. The Joker valve (and flap valve) are in the Henderson pump. I take my pump apart every winter and clean out the lime deposits from pump body, diaphragm and valves. A smear of silicon grease keeps the valves supple.

 

[ashtead]

I am told by those who know more that there are other lubrications which when poured in help -might it be olive or baby oil maybe? I stand corrected on pump purchase -it might have been the flappy thing with small weights which went on ours .

 

[lustyd]

I am told by those who know more that there are other lubrications which when poured in help -might it be olive or baby oil maybe? I stand corrected on pump purchase -it might have been the flappy thing with small weights which went on ours .

Yes the flappy weight thing is a nightmare and you’re 100% right there with the new pump. It’s either that or buy the flappy thing, try to fit it, then buy a new pump when you bugger it up
Olive oil won’t do any harm, very few things do to these units

 

[rotrax]

They recommend vaseline for the pump shaft and seal. These can be removed by unscrewing the handle (literally lock the handle and keep turning) on the recent model pump.

Not on a Raritan.

I have a tube of special Raritan lube for the pump shaft. I believe it is Silicone Grease.

A little cheapo vegtable oil in the bowl now and again keeps the piston 'O' ring pretty frictionless.

Had Raritan Marine toilets for fifteen years now. Very reliable and leak free.

Noisy in use though.

I have a little used complete spare. A friend just had an electric freshwater flush model fitted and gave me his old one, complete with two overhaul kits.

They are not cheap.

 

[srm]

Gosh, so many things to go wrong and have to keep messing around with.
Just confirms why I fitted a Lavac and enjoyed 13 years of trouble free use. Have at times pumped some fresh water and washing up liquid through when leaving the boat but that is all. I also bought service kit for pump and spare set of seat seals at the time. Have yet to use either.
Regardless of make/model I have always regarded it a good practice to pump enough flushing water through to ensure there is only water in the internal pipework. After all sea water is free to use.

 

[Bouba]

Another possibility is that if you are discharging sewage (either directly or emptying the holding tank)...if the sea is very calm...that cloud of sewage can make its way to the inlet pipe and come back in when flushing...eventually the black water dissipates and the problem goes away

 

[RupertW]

It's a catch 22. Residue can stick in the joker valve. Pump through so it's clean and the valves close properly

Not really - provided you never allow paper to be flushed through, then I’ve never known residue to open the valve. It’s either been age and distortion or mostly a build up of limescale.

 

[geem]

Not really - provided you never allow paper to be flushed through, then I’ve never known residue to open the valve. It’s either been age and distortion or mostly a build up of limescale.

Paper has been going through our toilets for my whole life

 

[lustyd]

Yes us too, a well maintained toilet has no issues with paper at all.

 

[geem]

Not really - provided you never allow paper to be flushed through, then I’ve never known residue to open the valve. It’s either been age and distortion or mostly a build up of limescale.

The limescale isn't limescale. It's the result of the interaction of pee and saltwater. The cure is you flush very well and you don't get the scale forming

Edit; using white vinegar periodically to clean the toilet is a help. Occasionally we pour a litre in the loo and flush enough such that the vinegar will sit in the pump and pipes over night

 

[srm]

The limescale isn't limescale. It's the result of the interaction of pee and saltwater. The cure is you flush very well and you don't get the scale forming

That is my experience: have never had "limescale" problems on any of my boats despite having spent a fair bit of time over the years living on board for extended periods. Likewise none of the smell problems that get mentioned here from time to time.

 

[RupertW]

Paper has been going through our toilets for my whole life

Which is why you need to excessively flush - that’s a reasonable tactic but not available if you have a much of people on the boat for a few days in a nice anchorage.

 

[RupertW]

The limescale isn't limescale. It's the result of the interaction of pee and saltwater. The cure is you flush very well and you don't get the scale forming

Edit; using white vinegar periodically to clean the toilet is a help. Occasionally we pour a litre in the loo and flush enough such that the vinegar will sit in the pump and pipes over night

I think we are now both repeating ourselves - I use holding tanks so seawater and urine spend up to a week interacting in pipes which clog up with a lot of limescale. As I could t get new pipe in a little island a few weeks ago I had to take the pipe off and 3m of 38mm was down to about 5mm or less in places as the rest of pipe was made of limescale. It’s fine - just needs replacing more often than if I was always able to flush straight into the sea.

It’s two different circumstances leading to two different methods.

 

[VicS]

The limescale isn't limescale. It's the result of the interaction of pee and saltwater. The cure is you flush very well and you don't get the scale forming

Edit; using white vinegar periodically to clean the toilet is a help. Occasionally we pour a litre in the loo and flush enough such that the vinegar will sit in the pump and pipes over night

The scale is in fact ( predominately ) calcium carbonate, ie limescale.

Bacterial urease action on urea in the urine produces ammonia.

The ammonia raises the pH which results in bicarbonate ions in the water becoming carbonates leading to the deposition of highly insoluble calcium carbonate.

.

 

[geem]

The scale is in fact ( predominately ) calcium carbonate, ie limescale.

Bacterial urease action on urea in the urine produces ammonia.

The ammonia raises the pH which results in bicarbonate ions in the water becoming carbonates leading to the deposition of highly insoluble calcium carbonate.

.

I should have put limescale like 'limescale'. Of course it's limescale but not deposited due to being under a stalactite. Pee sat in the bowl with saltwater is the issue

 

[VicS]

I should have put limescale like 'limescale'. Of course it's limescale but not deposited due to being under a stalactite. Pee sat in the bowl with saltwater is the issue

Being with saltwater is irrelevant. The same reactions causing deposition of calcium carbonate scale will occur in fresh water with a moderately high calcium bicarbonate concentration.

 

[geem]

Being with saltwater is irrelevant. The same reactions causing deposition of calcium carbonate scale will occur in fresh water with a moderately high calcium bicarbonate concentration.

OK. I am no chemist. Why does it never happen in a freshwater toilet?