Headlining disaster

Sea Devil

Sea Devil

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 Aug 2004
Messages
3,906
Location
Boulogne sur mer & Marbella Spain, Guadeloupe
www.youtube.com
People on PBO suggested I could get legal advice from mobo folks or just advice... I am aware that it is rude to post things on two forums but hope you will excuse this as it is a warning to all folks with the sag...


Like many of 'us' Paw Paw started to suffer from permanent droop and sagging and we decided that professionals were needed to totally replace the headlining.

Having searched the net we contracted Spencer Marine Ltd for £9,000 to travel to Gibraltar and replace all the Vinyl.pp

We did not see the finished job until after it was completed and both Louise and I were distraught. So horrified and disappointed. Have a look, if you like, at the pictures of the finished work - http://www.michaelbriant.com/new_page_68.htm

It maybe that I am becoming a grumpy old git and expect too much but having done the replacement headlining job once myself on a Prout 33 I did expect 'professionals', for lots of money, to have done at least as good a job as I had done.

Have others had similar experiences with Spencer Marine or other companies? Can you recommend anyone as I am 100% certain it is all going to sag again in a year or so as automotive headlining adhesive has been used rather than marine contact glue like SAF111 which should be applied to the GRP and marine spray like Trade Track or similar to the foam backing.

Have others used automotive aerosols successfully on their boat headlining?

Michael
 
I agree, this looks a really poor job, and I would be very disappointed if I had achieved this finish, let alone a professional outfit. What response have you had from your supplier?
 
Crikey, that is a truly terrible job. I mean it's not just a bit crummy, it's way way short of an acceptable stnadard. I thought the pics were of the old, till I read that they were pictures of the new job. I feel very sorry for you PawPaw. I think it very clearly falls below reasonable quality, which means they have not performed the contract (assuming there is nothing special in the contract). I would demand a full refund of the £9k (assuming it is all headlining) plus damages for the damage they've done, followed by a letter before action, then just issue proceedings in the county court backed up by pictures and a surveyor's letter. you'll win

your claim is right on the £10k cusp of the small claims track so you need to consider carefully whether to use small claims track or not. I think I would with this one, but tell the court clerk to allocate a couple of hours not 15mins before you turn up.

Also, if it does proceed that far because they don't reimburse you, I think you should formulate your claim carefully. I would not lead on the automotive glue element of the argument, for example
 
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That is the worst bodged job I have seen in a long time, unbelievable.. if that is what they call acceptable, then start proceedings immediately.
 
With respect, having read your other blog I would find out more about them, Who did you pay, was it to the Ltd Co, you mentioned that they are a Limited Company but you could not find them on the Companies House web site. then it says they are a husband & wife team, why would someone with a small business even bother to be a Ltd Co. If you do go to court I believe that you can list the action as A.N. Other trading as Boggit & Floggit Limited, that way the moment your claim arrives they cant just put the Ltd Co into liquidation.
And where you say that you cant find them at Companies House their Ltd Co could be in the Channel Islands.
I would find out where they live, find out from the Land Registry if they own or rent the property, get the Registration Number of their Van to see if its on HP etc.
The law relating to Ltd Companies in the UK is rubbish and I hope that they are of substance so it is worth claiming.
 
Jim@sea said:
With respect, having read your other blog I would find out more about them, Who did you pay, was it to the Ltd Co, you mentioned that they are a Limited Company but you could not find them on the Companies House web site. then it says they are a husband & wife team, why would someone with a small business even bother to be a Ltd Co. If you do go to court I believe that you can list the action as A.N. Other trading as Boggit & Floggit Limited, that way the moment your claim arrives they cant just put the Ltd Co into liquidation.
And where you say that you cant find them at Companies House their Ltd Co could be in the Channel Islands.
I would find out where they live, find out from the Land Registry if they own or rent the property, get the Registration Number of their Van to see if its on HP etc.
The law relating to Ltd Companies in the UK is rubbish and I hope that they are of substance so it is worth claiming.
Click to expand...

Ltd Co = less tax
 
jfm said:
Crikey, that is a truly terrible job. I mean it's not just a bit crummy, it's way way short of an acceptable stnadard. I thought the pics were of the old, till I read that they were pictures of the new job. I feel very sorry for you PawPaw. I think it very clearly falls below reasonable quality, which means they have not performed the contract (assuming there is nothing special in the contract). I would demand a full refund of the £9k (assuming it is all headlining) plus damages for the damage they've done, followed by a letter before action, then just issue proceedings in the county court backed up by pictures and a surveyor's letter. you'll win

your claim is right on the £10k cusp of the small claims track so you need to consider carefully whether to use small claims track or not. I think I would with this one, but tell the court clerk to allocate a couple of hours not 15mins before you turn up.

Also, if it does proceed that far because they don't reimburse you, I think you should formulate your claim carefully. I would not lead on the automotive glue element of the argument, for example
Click to expand...

Thank you for the advice - My Small Claims Court problem is that I am non resident UK. Have been for decades and my understanding of the system is that I need a UK address etc. Mr (Frank) Spencer has emailed me this morning to say that he is horrified I have not given them more time to find a solution to the problem.. I emailed back to enquire what solution he suggests.
I will keep the forum updated.

Really very grateful for all the sympathy - I just want my boat to look nice again

Michael
 
sailorman said:
Ltd Co = less tax
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, depends on the individuals' circumstances. as the name implies the benefit is to limit the liability of the owners to the company's debts.

So in this case if it is a sole trader, s/he is personally responsible, if it were a limited company the owner may not be personally liable.
 
Sandyman said:
Michael. I may have missed it, but exactly when was this work carried out?
Click to expand...

They finished the works around 23rd November but we could not get to the boat before 28th November and were devastated by the appalling finish, insulation hanging down in engine compartment, Fridge, 14 unfilled holes in superstructure gelcoat, lighting circuits not working etc etc so I emailed them a few times and they returned a week or so later to put plastic padding in the holes and fix the other items. They spent two days doing this.

We drove down from Ronda and met with them to express our disappointment and dismay at the job. They said it was a totally satisfactory piece of workmanship and that the glue had been used for the last couple of years without problem and that compromises were necessary. I said I wanted a full refund for the appalling damage done to my boat by sticking vinyl on beautiful pieces of wood instead of tucking behind which involves more work. They said they would consider making some sort of refund and be in touch. Louise and I spent a couple of nights on board looking at the devastation wreaked by these amateurs.

That was over a week ago and yesterday morning having heard nothing for over a week I set up the pictures and story on my web site and later started this thread.

Bryan Spencer emailed this morning to complain I had not given them an opportunity to respond to my complaints.

I will keep you posted.

Michael
 
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Paw Paw said:
Thank you for the advice - My Small Claims Court problem is that I am non resident UK. Have been for decades and my understanding of the system is that I need a UK address etc. Mr (Frank) Spencer has emailed me this morning to say that he is horrified I have not given them more time to find a solution to the problem.. I emailed back to enquire what solution he suggests.
I will keep the forum updated.

Really very grateful for all the sympathy - I just want my boat to look nice again

Michael
Click to expand...
Hi Michael
That isn't correct. The courts will not allocate a claim against a non UK resident to the small claims track but the claimant can be non resident if a UK service address is provided (a service address isn't the same thing as being resident). The whole topic of jurisdiction is complex and involves many factors including under which law the contract was made, the residence of the headlining firm, etc. The contract law might not even have been stated but was probably UK. The only way to advise properly is to get all the facts and that's hard on a forum, I'd want to know your citizenship the boat's flag state, and see the correspondence/emails documenting the contract, just for starters

Let's return to this only if you need to go down the legal route. The supplier might do the right thing and make a refund without needing to resort to the courts, but if necessary issuing proceedings can focus their minds. While you're emailing them in the meantime, don't say the wrong thing :-)
 
jfm said:
Hi Michael
That isn't correct. The courts will not allocate a claim against a non UK resident to the small claims track but the claimant can be non resident if a UK service address is provided (a service address isn't the same thing as being resident). The whole topic of jurisdiction is complex and involves many factors including under which law the contract was made, the residence of the headlining firm, etc. The contract law might not even have been stated but was probably UK. The only way to advise properly is to get all the facts and that's hard on a forum, I'd want to know your citizenship the boat's flag state, and see the correspondence/emails documenting the contract, just for starters

Let's return to this only if you need to go down the legal route. The supplier might do the right thing and make a refund without needing to resort to the courts, but if necessary issuing proceedings can focus their minds. While you're emailing them in the meantime, don't say the wrong thing :-)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the information re claiming via UK courts - My brief visit to the Government web site made me think otherwise - even with a UK part one registered boat!

Hopefully I will not have to go anywhere near that route as they have just offered a full refund by email. The moment the money 'hits' my account I will post it on the forums so everybody knows.

I will now start looking for a professional headlining company between Gibraltar and Marseilles....

Thank you for taking the time to post all the advice

Fair winds

Michael
 
Paw Paw said:
Thank you for the information re claiming via UK courts - My brief visit to the Government web site made me think otherwise - even with a UK part one registered boat!

Hopefully I will not have to go anywhere near that route as they have just offered a full refund by email. The moment the money 'hits' my account I will post it on the forums so everybody knows.

I will now start looking for a professional headlining company between Gibraltar and Marseilles....

Thank you for taking the time to post all the advice

Fair winds

Michael
Click to expand...

Damage limitation ?? Good result for you Michael. Fingers crossed he come's through with the money.
 
When this is all sorted why not have a go yourself. It's not rocket science and givse a real sense of satisfaction to have done it yourself.
 
I have to report that I received the following email from Spencer Marine who have done the right thing by us...
Dear Michael and Louise

Thank you for your email.

As you are not fully satisfied with some aspects of the headlining work we carried out for you, we will refund in full all monies paid to us for the entire job, amounting to £ 8,900.00.

Please advise bank account details for us to action this.

Bryan & Sandra

The money arrived in my account this afternoon.
 
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