Headlining Disaster

[sailorman]

Small claims is probably the right way to go. Though you must first work out exactly what you are claiming for, after which you must try and settle your claim before taking court action. You should only apply to the court for compensation if you cannot solve the problem by negotiation with [Frank] Spencer Marine Headlining Ltd.

But speaking of legal big guns, and since there is a decent amount of money at stake, why not pm the exceptionally helpful "jfm" on the Mobo Forum; I think he is a big-deal legal eagle in real life and will no doubt help steer you in the right direction.

getting a judgement doesnt mean getting any wonga back from the trader

 

[dom]

getting a judgement doesnt mean getting any wonga back from the trader

Agreed, which is why I recommend the OP to have a quick chat with a card-carrying legal expert before taking any decision as to the way forward.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Oh dear! that is rubbish.

I have been replacing my headlining on an Oceanlord progressively now for 5 years. The initial changes were stuck up with spray - the first heat of the med brought it down. It was re stuck with the recommended contact adhesive, and that worked well but we have noticed this year that some of that is coming unbonded.

The law is a last resort, but I am not sure that if they agreed to come back to tidy up, that I would want them anywhere near the boat. It reminds me of when my bimini was fitted - the fitters, a well known supplier to Westerly Owners assoc - used my teak decks as a backing to drill 6mm holes in the steel work for pop rivets..... Luckily you can plug 6 mm holes quite easily....

Good luck with sorting it out.

 

[richardbrennan]

I recently had a quote from this company followed by an email saying they were booked solid until August 2015, so there may be many owners out there who are in for a shock!

 

[Vara]

Michael, thank you for your timely post, I was contemplating spending £1500 with those people to sort out out my aft cabin. Needless to say that it's not going to happen now.

Goodluck with getting the mess sorted out.

 

[Sea Devil]

this is a bit odd; there is no Spencer Marine Ltd registered at Companies House, but a Spencer Marine Consulting, whose principal business seems to be well away from any boat maintenance services.


I'll do a bit more ferreting....



EDIT

I am pretty sure that Spencer Marine Ltd does not exist in the UK.


Is it this business ?

http://spencermarine.com/

Yes these are the people!

 

[Sea Devil]

I assume that you have contacted the head honcho

my guess is that he sent a couple of the lads down there

send him the snaps and ask if he thinks it is acceptable

I am assuming that he will not and will get a real expert down to sort it out

such a shame!

This is a husband and wife team and they tell me they are very happy with the standard of finish... There have to be compromises they tell me!

 

[Poignard]

From the Spencer Marine home page;

'We are sailing people ourselves, and will take care of your boat as though it were our own!'

 

[pvb]

OK, someone has to ask the question. Why did you pay them before you inspected the work?

 

[Sea Devil]

OK, someone has to ask the question. Why did you pay them before you inspected the work?

I paid most up front for travel and accommodation booking plus shipping glue and stuff to Gib then an advance on the works - seemed reasonable at the time. As they did not want us around we went to the UK on business for a week which became two - then the car got dirty CEPSA fuel and had to towed - we live in Ronda etc etc but they called and sent me email pix all wide shots of the white vinyl and the boat looked bling.... When I had a film company I was often in 'desperate' straits because big companies did not pay there bills for ages. In the end it finished us... I resolved always to pay bills asap particularly to small companies... It was not their fault we could not view the boat before they left -- they sent lovely emails - lovely pix and like a bloody fool I sent the balance! The worst part is that because they used the wrong glue in the wrong way it will all fall down so I am well and truly stuffed and ... heartbroken at the awful things they have done to my lovely boat.
Michael

 

[Vara]

Further investigation would reveal that this is a two person band, not registered for VAT. So the heavy legal guns would probably achieve very little...man of straw etc.

However I do hope you can achieve some level of compensation to ease the not inconsiderable financial pain.

The next problem, as I am finding is to find somebody to redo/do the job properly.

 

[dom]

The worst part is that because they used the wrong glue in the wrong way it will all fall down so I am well and truly stuffed and ... heartbroken at the awful things they have done to my lovely boat.

You seem like a really decent bloke who's made a mistake and been ripped off; but you're not necessarily stuffed and it's far too early to put this unfortunate episode down to experience The worst thing to do is to sit and fester, in particular if they are reputable people, solvent and with a healthy order book. I'd strongly advise you to ask a legal friend, visit a solicitor or pm jfm next door for some concrete ideas on how to proceed.

 

[pvb]

Well, in that case you need to put together as much evidence as you can, in the form of photographs, etc, and write to Mr Spencer expressing your unhappiness and asking for a full refund. You won't get it, so the next stage is to discuss with him what he might do to correct the faults, or whether he'd make a partial refund. If you can't agree, it's the Small Claims Track of the County Court next.

 

[pvb]

Further investigation would reveal that this is a two person band, not registered for VAT. So the heavy legal guns would probably achieve very little...man of straw etc.

Not necessarily, the business will have assets, a van for example, which might be owned and could be the basis of recovery action.

 

[quimby]

I'd start with the business owner before resorting to the law - If he values his reputation he'll appreciate the opportunity to put things right and make sure you're a satisfied customer.

Producing work like that! I very much doubt hes worried about his reputation. Excuse maybe that he has problems with his eyesight.
Hope you get some redress. Best of luck to you.

 

[dom]

If you can't agree, it's the Small Claims Track of the County Court next.

But be careful, even County Court cases can get expensive! A couple of years ago I rented a house for my son and the estate agent refused to refund any of the £3500 odd deposit for a heap of spurious reasons. On the case wound with the estate agent and its client arguing points of law, principally that the new AST legislation did not apply. As the case crawled towards the County Court the Estate Agent agreed to refund the deposit in full, but balked at the associated costs, which had run up to £9k due to their endless legal challenges. They finally agreed to pay the lot: £12k legal fees plus the £3,500 deposit, but you never know how a court case might go.

 

[pvb]

But be careful, even County Court cases can get expensive! A couple of years ago I rented a house for my son and the estate agent refused to refund any of the £3500 odd deposit for a heap of spurious reasons. On the case wound with the estate agent and its client arguing points of law, principally that the new AST legislation did not apply. As the case crawled towards the County Court the Estate Agent agreed to refund the deposit in full, but balked at the associated costs, which had run up to £9k due to their endless legal challenges. They finally agreed to pay the lot: £12k legal fees plus the £3,500 deposit, but you never know how a court case might go.

You don't need to use a solicitor at all. If you win, the Court fees are refunded. Costs are not awarded in the Small Claims Track.

 

[dom]

You don't need to use a solicitor at all. If you win, the Court fees are refunded. Costs are not awarded in the Small Claims Track.

That's true and I know some people successfully represent themselves. This might work fine in cases which relate principally to the facts, but I can honestly say is that even my simple case required a knowledge of tenancy and other UK Law beyond what the average person could cope with, at least it was certainly well beyond mine!

More serious business cases I've had the misfortune to become embroiled in have run upwards of £500K costs before you could say "Boo to a Goose!" ...endless witness statements, dreary legal musings, game-theory based offers to settle, expert witnesses and so on. In my line of business the reality is that if one side hires a magic-circle firm the other is effectively bounced into a similar hire.

I guess Mark Twain's wonderful comment comes to mind when I think of DIY Law, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!"

 

[pvb]

That's true and I know some people successfully represent themselves. This might work fine in cases which relate principally to the facts, but I can honestly say is that even my simple case required a knowledge of tenancy and other UK Law beyond what the average person could cope with, at least it was certainly well beyond mine!

You could have just left it to the Court to decide; it's not essential to go through endless legal arguments first - these are primarily driven by solicitors.

 

[volvopaul]

Like many of 'us' Paw Paw started to suffer from permanent droop and sagging and we decided that professionals were needed to totally replace the headlining.

Having searched the net we contracted Spencer Marine Ltd for £9,000 to travel to Gibraltar and replace all the Vinyl.

We did not see the finished job until after it was completed and both Louise and I were distraught. So horrified and disappointed. Have a look, if you like, at the pictures of the finished work - http://www.michaelbriant.com/new_page_68.htm

It maybe that I am becoming a grumpy old git and expect too much but having done the replacement headlining job once myself on a Prout 33 I did expect 'professionals', for lots of money, to have done at least as good a job as I had done.

Have others had similar experiences with Spencer Marine or other companies? Can you recommend anyone as I am 100% certain it is all going to sag again in a year or so as automotive headlining adhesive has been used rather than marine contact glue like SAF111 which should be applied to the GRP and marine spray like Trade Track or similar to the foam backing.

Have others used automotive aerosols successfully on their boat headlining?

Michael

Looks like an even worse than DIY job to me, shame Jack Rolfe and the mermaid boatyard aren't still around eh Michael!!

Michael will know exactly what I mean.