Head Sails advice please! 23' sloop.

[mickyp168]

Hi All
I have a Daimio 700 built by CNSO in southern France who no longer exist. It's a 23' (7m) masthead sloop. The boat is kept and sailed in the Med in the south of France where I live, and I don't go out in more than a force 4ish. I have a number one jib and a large genoa which comes back past the mast about level with the front of the hatch way. I find the no 1 jib a bit too small to be practical in light wind and the genoa a bit too large and cumbersome. Especially as I don't have roller furling so after every sail I have to hump it onto the dock and fold it up for storage. I am considering taking the plunge and having a new set of sails made as mine are now getting a bit tired. I am not sure what would be my best option as the most usable foresail for the boat. I was thinking of a number 3 genoa . A foresail that comes up to or just past the mast I think would be the most practical for my fair weather sailing and easier to fold up and stow etc. I would be most grateful for some good advice from some knowledgeable soul out there!

Thank you
Mick

 

[yoda]

Sounds like you need a smaller Genoa, something like a number 2 or 3. Full height luff but shorter foot than the genoa you have at the moment. I would work out the measurements of what you want and look for a secondhand sail and try it before ordering new, it will always be a useful spare.

Yoda

 

[PabloPicasso]

Sounds like you need a smaller Genoa, something like a number 2 or 3. Full height luff but shorter foot than the genoa you have at the moment. I would work out the measurements of what you want and look for a secondhand sail and try it before ordering new, it will always be a useful spare.

Yoda

Get a furling/reeling forestay. It'll be much easier and more versatile than new sails. If your sailing is fun day sails, coastal cruising, etcetera then it would be money better spent on curler than new sails.

 

[William_H]

I am one of the minority group on this forum who are anti furling jibs. I think they are good for cruising but definitely damge upwind performance.
i think you will find that your big genoa is fine for light winds albeit cumbersome to tack and any stretch of old age will not matter so much. Incidentally you may be able to release and tie back the intermediate (baby) forestay in really light winds for easier tacking. But do restore it in any sort of wind or sail pressure.
Likewise the no 1 jib as you call it is probably Ok for medium winds. It is stronger winds and going to wind ward that a new smaller jib will really work well. As said make it full luff length and short in the foot for easy tacking. Do make sure you get a correct sheeting point for this new jib. ie well forward. Your sail maker may suggest battens in the jib to help keep its shape at the top and stop flutter.
Having a good flat correct sized jib can turn an apparently too windy day into a peasure sail so yes you need more smaller jibs. I have 4 on my little 21fter and would not do without any of them. good luck olewill

 

[charles_reed]

Get a furling/reeling forestay. It'll be much easier and more versatile than new sails. If your sailing is fun day sails, coastal cruising, etcetera then it would be money better spent on curler than new sails.

Unless you're into racing, your money would probably far better spent on a roller-furler, especially with a masthead rig and if you are likely to continue to stay a fine-weather sailor.

On a small fractional rig WilliamH has a valid point.
Rather than talk vaguely in terms of #genoa, I'd suggest you have a 120-140% genoa with a foam luff.
My #3 genoa is, in fact a solent, 100% blade jib and a right pain to lift and lower when single-handed as it doesn't fit on the roller reef.
A big overlap foresail is only valuable in a reach - it's a pain when you're beating. Trouble is that a masthead rig relies inordinately heavily on that foresail area.
It's no accident that, with the demise of IOR II in 1994 no more stubby, unstable boats have been produced, with rate-cheating masthead rigs.
Alternatively - if you want a world-girdling cruiser with a gravity-storm-defying mast opt, always, for a masthead rig.
I'm having made a 110% radial genoa with extended leach and inner sheeting angle to get the small tacking angle that I enjoy with the solent.

 

[25931]

Get a furling/reeling forestay. It'll be much easier and more versatile than new sails. If your sailing is fun day sails, coastal cruising, etcetera then it would be money better spent on curler than new sails.

I couldn't agree more. La Roca is also 23´masthead and the roller genny is a pleasure - fitted ten years ago and not a moments regret.

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

Perhaps you could ask a sailmaker to add reefing points to the genoa.
As for changing sails and folding them afterwards; I instruct on 19' dayboats (Les Glenans 5.70s) which are kept on moorings, so don't have the luxury of hopping ashore to fold the sail nicely at the end of the day. While I do show trainees how to fold a headsail properly, I have developed a pragmatic "lazy man's headsail fold". What happens is that when the sail is dropped, all of its folds are pulled to one side, like a concertina, while still on the forestay. The sheets are then removed, the sail folded up from the clew towards the tack, the bag pulled up onto the sail, the tack and hanks detached and the bagging completed. When the sail is to be used again one only has to open the bag to find the tack, clew, head and hanks all immediately to hand, very convenient for sail changes under way.

 

[Neil_Y]

Perhaps you could ask a sailmaker to add reefing points to the genoa.
As for changing sails and folding them afterwards; I instruct on 19' dayboats (Les Glenans 5.70s) which are kept on moorings, so don't have the luxury of hopping ashore to fold the sail nicely at the end of the day. While I do show trainees how to fold a headsail properly, I have developed a pragmatic "lazy man's headsail fold". What happens is that when the sail is dropped, all of its folds are pulled to one side, like a concertina, while still on the forestay. The sheets are then removed, the sail folded up from the clew towards the tack, the bag pulled up onto the sail, the tack and hanks detached and the bagging completed. When the sail is to be used again one only has to open the bag to find the tack, clew, head and hanks all immediately to hand, very convenient for sail changes under way.

Glenan, you just made me remember the great sailing we had around the Glenans last June, what a great place to teach. On sail folding there is a school of thaught that makes sense to me, if the sail is a cruising sail (not monofilm/plastic) then folding with the same creases is worse for the sail than a rough fold roll as Glenan suggested. Size No1 is the biggest down to a No3 usually. If you are cruising and not interested in performance then might also be worth looking at a high cut clew so you get better visibility, I use a No2 on friends boat that has a very high cut clew, great for when you are short handed and want to see the boats around you, or if you have beginners steering.

 

[oldharry]

Get a furling/reeling forestay. It'll be much easier and more versatile than new sails. If your sailing is fun day sails, coastal cruising, etcetera then it would be money better spent on curler than new sails.

+1 You say your sails a re getting a 'bit tired' but unless you sail competitively this doesnt make a huge difference until they get really badly out of shape. Replacing the complete set will cost a lot, and the money will be better spent on a roller reefing jib.

Firstly, it avoids all that dancing around on the foredeck when it blows up a bit making it much safer to reduce sail. Gives you more time sailing, instead of folding and stowing the sails. I can be under sail within five minutes of getting aboard. If budget is limited, consider a good second hand mainsail to go with it, if your original really is bad. The racing fraternity tend to replace sails frequently, and very often there are bargain 'used' sails, which have years of cruising life left in them to be had.

 

[sailduck]

I have a spare furling system that might fit. It's from a Hunter Sonata - check the owner's association for luff length. Make me a sensible offer if you are interested - PM me.
Andrew