Hc calculated position

Could I ask how you all managed to do the practical side of the RYA Ocean Nav Cert.
The passage has to be a minimum 600nm length conducted offshore. It would be nice to complete the practical side if it could be done at a reasonable cost and time.

As i understand it that is, for many, the constraint. It was originally intended to demonstrate the practical management and navigation of a suitable yacht well offshore, for a suitable period. Among the creative ways that have emerged is the wheeze of a sailing school instructor taking a school-prepared boat down Channel and out into the Western Approaches, then south to somewhere like Lisbon, with half-a-dozen aspirants sitting on the foredeck trying their hands and their patience every noon-time. They then all compare Hs as measured, come to a consensus on 'corrections' to apply, then do a group-hug on their Sight Reduction forms. The half-dozen 'remarkably similar results' are carefully stored for later presentation to an exalted Examiner....

There is another way, besides signing up for the Golden Globe 2018 and heading off solo, with a pile of 'How To' books from Adlard Coles Publishing.

For my own 'odyssey' quite a few years ago, a friend phoned to say he wanted to get some significant miles for his logbook and ask if I had any ideas...! We left the Liverpool River laden with twice-baked bread and muesli, stuck a wet forefinger up to determine - as did the sailing masters in the Days of Sail - where the wind was likely coming from, then headed up along the Antrim Coast and out the North Channel into the Atlantic. Once Ireland was well and truly sunk below the bubbles of our wake, we turned south and followed one of them longitude lines on the chart until the margarine melted, then turned half-left for Iberia. All on astro and DR..... and LOPs whenever Antrim was visible..... just as the sailing masters of old had to do, and - for my own satisfaction - just as I wanted.

The 'bit of Iberia' turned out to be La Coruna, as I'd sorta hoped. As did my mate/host, whose comfortable Antigua catamaran I'd 'borrowed'. He hid his surprise quite well.

I wrote the whole thing up, in the old way, as a passage log and journal, which allowed the Examiner later to share in the pleasure of the voyage, and to find pertinent questions to ask regarding nav decisions - such as how did we avoid bumping into Ireland here and there, and who took the night watches and why.

It must have been an effective process, for we also managed to avoid making a dent in foggy Ushant on the way back, and even found our way into the intended pub in Newlyn. What helped a bit was having our compass properly calibrated for errors, something I'm told certain of the GGR 'Provisionals' have yet to discover. And also the knowledge that we were following in the footsteps of countless thousands of sea-traders down the centuries - Phoenicians, Romans, Barbary pirates, Dutch, Spanish and Portugeezers - few of them as well trained or equipped as us.

I dare say - but not too loudly - that it could have been done with a £5 Ebbco 'Stargazy Special'.... for it's not the navigation that the 'Zaminer is looking for, so much as the seamanship.

Doanchathink?
 
Zoidberg, thanks for your reply. Don’t suppose your mate’s Cat is still available???
You put your finger on the problem as I see it. Unless someone is prepared to lend a suitable boat for a trip like this then
the option of a school boat would seem my only option. As you say this is not really the aim of the qualification.
 
Just looked online for a commercially available course. Sea schools are offering a basic 600nm passage for £1000 or so.
Anything longer or more interesting is double that at least.
Maybe have to buy a motorsailer myself!
 
As i understand it that is, for many, the constraint. It was originally intended to demonstrate the practical management and navigation of a suitable yacht well offshore, for a suitable period. Among the creative ways that have emerged is the wheeze of a sailing school instructor taking a school-prepared boat down Channel and out into the Western Approaches, then south to somewhere like Lisbon, with half-a-dozen aspirants sitting on the foredeck trying their hands and their patience every noon-time. They then all compare Hs as measured, come to a consensus on 'corrections' to apply, then do a group-hug on their Sight Reduction forms. The half-dozen 'remarkably similar results' are carefully stored for later presentation to an exalted Examiner....

There is another way, besides signing up for the Golden Globe 2018 and heading off solo, with a pile of 'How To' books from Adlard Coles Publishing.

For my own 'odyssey' quite a few years ago, a friend phoned to say he wanted to get some significant miles for his logbook and ask if I had any ideas...! We left the Liverpool River laden with twice-baked bread and muesli, stuck a wet forefinger up to determine - as did the sailing masters in the Days of Sail - where the wind was likely coming from, then headed up along the Antrim Coast and out the North Channel into the Atlantic. Once Ireland was well and truly sunk below the bubbles of our wake, we turned south and followed one of them longitude lines on the chart until the margarine melted, then turned half-left for Iberia. All on astro and DR..... and LOPs whenever Antrim was visible..... just as the sailing masters of old had to do, and - for my own satisfaction - just as I wanted.

The 'bit of Iberia' turned out to be La Coruna, as I'd sorta hoped. As did my mate/host, whose comfortable Antigua catamaran I'd 'borrowed'. He hid his surprise quite well.

I wrote the whole thing up, in the old way, as a passage log and journal, which allowed the Examiner later to share in the pleasure of the voyage, and to find pertinent questions to ask regarding nav decisions - such as how did we avoid bumping into Ireland here and there, and who took the night watches and why.

It must have been an effective process, for we also managed to avoid making a dent in foggy Ushant on the way back, and even found our way into the intended pub in Newlyn. What helped a bit was having our compass properly calibrated for errors, something I'm told certain of the GGR 'Provisionals' have yet to discover. And also the knowledge that we were following in the footsteps of countless thousands of sea-traders down the centuries - Phoenicians, Romans, Barbary pirates, Dutch, Spanish and Portugeezers - few of them as well trained or equipped as us.

I dare say - but not too loudly - that it could have been done with a £5 Ebbco 'Stargazy Special'.... for it's not the navigation that the 'Zaminer is looking for, so much as the seamanship.

Doanchathink?

Wil, I totally agree and I have more problems examining wannabe candidates who have made transatlantic crossings on super yachts. They’ve stood watch, been nominal mate, helped with the planning, but when asked about victualling their reply is, “the chef does that!”
 
Calculated height, taken from assumed position, use it to compare with Ho (observed height), basically your sextant angle of height Ho being compared to a theoretical sextant height Hc, if you were taking it from your assumed position.
Difference is toward or away, from observed position, to give a line of position. This is the Mark St Hillaire method ( also used by Sumner - an American).
Your assumed position is effectively a position which uses nice round numbers of latitude, to make entering into the tables easier.

“A Pedant Writes:”

Sumner was an American merchant ship captain. He was in fact a highly educated man, and like many other Americans of that era had turned to the sea for a career, since, however strange this now seems, between the Napoleonic Wars and the Civil War, the United States of America was the most important nation in merchant shipping.

He discovered the intercept method whilst approaching Liverpool.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hubbard_Sumner

Marc St Hilaire was an Admiral in the French Navy who refined the method and gave it its name.
 
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'millie and maggie and mollie and may.....'
 
Wil, I totally agree and I have more problems examining wannabe candidates who have made transatlantic crossings on super yachts. They’ve stood watch, been nominal mate, helped with the planning, but when asked about victualling their reply is, “the chef does that!”

Pretty much what I would answer. A gentleman should always have a cook. .:cool:
 
This link gives the passage requirements for the qualifying passage for Ocean Yachtmaster.
It would seeem to exclude the passages as advertised online, because there can only be one skipper for the passage.
Multiple students acting as skipper in turn on one boat is specifically forbidden.
http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/exams/Pages/qualifying-passages.aspx
I assume candidates are managing the passage but how is it being achieved, short of buying a boat themselves and acting as Skipper?
 
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This link gives the passage requirements for the qualifying passage for Ocean Yachtmaster.
It would seeem to exclude the passages as advertised online, because there can only be one skipper for the passage.
Multiple students acting as skipper in turn on one boat is specifically forbidden.
http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/exams/Pages/qualifying-passages.aspx
I assume candidates are managing the passage but how is it being achieved, short of buying a boat themselves and acting as Skipper?

Well, UKSA used to take their students to the Caribbean (flying over), then ply up & down with them onboard doingsifhts, eaxh one being nominal "skipper" for a period. Their instructor "skipper" was also onboard.
IIRC, a 'watchkeeper' also qualifies, as long as he has been involved in all the planning/victualling.
 
I s'pose I had a sound apprenticeship in 'astro' for, in the early 70s HM Queen let me borrow one of her many 30m wide 4-engine steeds to flog around the North Atlantic on 2000nm trips, practising with the well-calibrated 'sun gun', at 500knots and 50,000 feet. That was quite some time before I was able to borrow a catamaran, for an average of around 5knots and 5 feet 'height of eye'.

I wasn't actually 'captain' on those earlier trips, of course, but I did do the planning, and pointed the thingys in the desired direction. Victualling was mostly Mars Bars. The revered RYA 'Zaminer a decade later must have 'taken a view' of my experience. He was intrigued by the process of calculation of a Most Probable Position and we had quite a discussion on the need for and intricacies of 'compass swinging' Iron Triangles.....

Both of these ideas were raised 'in concept' recently with someone interested in sailing alone non-stop around the globe, but were met with studied insouciance. Time will tell..... :rolleyes:
 
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