Haverfordwest paddleboard deaths - MAIB report published

[ylop]

Drifting the thread only slightly, has there been a finding in the case of the mountain gide and two clients who died in a fall on Aonach Eagach ridge in Glencoe in August 2023, or is it still under consideration?

I don’t believe the findings have been published yet. it was scheduled “to start” in February but I imagine that was actually a preliminary hearing to agree the witness list, interested parties, etc rather than actual evidence beginning. We are very slow at doing FAIs in Scotland, compared to Coroners Inquiries and do them far less often.

It seemed to me it might raise similar issues.

It might although the guide died too so there will obviously be no criminal proceedings against him even if he was grossly negligent (which I’ve not seen suggested). I don’t recall at the time anyone in horror that they were on the ridge on a summer day, any public question about the guide’s suitability or experience, nor doubts that the couple had thought they were going for a walk in the park. Of course it may be there are details that will emerge that aren’t in the public domain - but the Haverfordwest situation, immediately everyone who heard of it questioned why they were on a river in flood conditions, why beginners were trying to cross a weir etc.

 

[Graham376]

It's strange how sentences vary wildly. 10 years in this case but a £750 fine + costs for a canoe instructor responsible for the death of a student, a friend of mine. Instructor's insurance settlement was £1m+. Kayak instructor fined for "error and misjudgement" that led to death of ex-soldier in training exercise on River Tees.

 

[penberth3]

Drifting the thread only slightly, has there been a finding in the case of the mountain gide and two clients who died in a fall on Aonach Eagach ridge in Glencoe in August 2023, or is it still under consideration?
It seemed to me it might raise similar issues.

The various Climbing and Mountaineering forums might have covered this.

 

[Mark-1]

It's strange how sentences vary wildly. 10 years in this case but a £750 fine + costs for a canoe instructor responsible for the death of a student, a friend of mine. Instructor's insurance settlement was £1m+. Kayak instructor fined for "error and misjudgement" that led to death of ex-soldier in training exercise on River Tees.

Less deaths and far less culpability, plus a heroic attempt to save.

A totally different case, totally different charges.

 

[ylop]

It's strange how sentences vary wildly. 10 years in this case but a £750 fine + costs for a canoe instructor responsible for the death of a student, a friend of mine. Instructor's insurance settlement was £1m+. Kayak instructor fined for "error and misjudgement" that led to death of ex-soldier in training exercise on River Tees.

Someone with the evidence in front of them decided your friend’s case wasn’t (or at least was unlikely to be proved to be) manslaughter. In Haverfordwest they reviewed the evidence and concluded it was manslaughter, and the defendant (with the benefit of legal advice) agreed.

 

[alan_d]

I don’t believe the findings have been published yet. it was scheduled “to start” in February but I imagine that was actually a preliminary hearing to agree the witness list, interested parties, etc rather than actual evidence beginning. We are very slow at doing FAIs in Scotland, compared to Coroners Inquiries and do them far less often.

It might although the guide died too so there will obviously be no criminal proceedings against him even if he was grossly negligent (which I’ve not seen suggested). I don’t recall at the time anyone in horror that they were on the ridge on a summer day, any public question about the guide’s suitability or experience, nor doubts that the couple had thought they were going for a walk in the park. Of course it may be there are details that will emerge that aren’t in the public domain - but the Haverfordwest situation, immediately everyone who heard of it questioned why they were on a river in flood conditions, why beginners were trying to cross a weir etc.

Thank you for that.

 

[Capt Popeye]

I am genuinely a softy liberal, and one of the points of incarceration is to force the perpetrator to rehabilitate themselves by accepting what they've done and learning to be a better person (we'll ignore the practical chances of that in the current prison environment).

In this instance, with a defendant who really should have known better, who showed very little remorse, who tried to pin the whole blame on her deceased colleague who she had more or less bullied into the trip, and who lied repeatedly both before and after the tragedy, including misrepresenting her qualifications for personal gain... I still think ten years might not be enough. But I do hope it is.

Well I am not in any way sure that a present purpose of Prison or Detaiment can / is designed to effect rehabilitation , as how can Detainees think of rehabilitation when mixing with other Crims most of their time in detainment ? I understand that often Crims are segregated into religious grouping or nationality grouping ; cripes what a recipit for ongoing troubles . Suggest that only confinement for most of the Crims is trhe way to enable them to reflect and think over their previous actions I this case of the many deaths , maybe enforced restrictions on offering group actions of this sort , it should be prety simple for anybody to report or shop persons advertising these activities ?