Have we been conned ..... ?

Did I start to make people look closer at the damage and unit ?

I got impression that furling line is 2x the diam needed for the job, fed of drum between hoops instead of through one, leads down STBD side .. not port as another said ...

But in photo - furling line is slack and laying on foredeck - giving no real idea of lead / guides or other.

Me ? I'd go back to Charter Co. and demand in writing full detail / explanation of why they retain Deposit. Second professional Yard appraisal of rig to determine probable cause. Third - if they have already used your money to repair ( ha ha ) ... or refuse any of above - demand return of Deposit or face Small Claims Court etc.
I'm the sort that deals fairly and discuss to get solution till point I start to feel they are f***** me. Then I get the bit and just casually mention that bad publicity is not recc'd ..... cough up or choke on bad publicity ..
 
Refueler said:
I got impression that furling line is 2x the diam needed for the job, fed of drum between hoops instead of through one, leads down STBD side .. not port as another said ...
Click to expand...
Using my 35' for a sense of scale I think that is 8mm line which is about right for the job.

Fed between the hoops, yes good point.

No it feeds back down the port side deck to a small grey pulley wheel attached to the pulpit upright. Note the black tape on the stainless upright which has been put there I suspect to give the grey plastic fitting more bite. Mine slips over times and needs to be realigned.

Given the lens perspective it is not possible to verify the angle of the lead. We should be in forensics!
 
It's a puzzle and if you havent got a clue how it happened (or even if it happened when you had the boat) it's almost impossible for us to guess the cause. Personally I dont think its anything to do with the furling line. If you study the photos, the front part of the bent wire is bent further than the back part which to me would suggest damage from the front of the boat eg by the anchor or anchor roade or a mooring line.

I cant see any way in which a turn of the reefing line would cause that sort of deformation. Nor can I see how the genoa sheets could do so.

I can see no basis for the silly comments suggesting that it's all a scam / name and shame etc.
 
jason -and the arguenauts said:
It's a puzzle and if you havent got a clue how it happened (or even if it happened when you had the boat) it's almost impossible for us to guess the cause. Personally I dont think its anything to do with the furling line. If you study the photos, the front part of the bent wire is bent further than the back part which to me would suggest damage from the front of the boat eg by the anchor or anchor roade or a mooring line.
Click to expand...

See my earlier post where I tried to explain it. Imagine the furling line lying in front of this loop instead of behind it as in the picture, and being pulled back (winched I would think). Looking at the run of the line to the little block which is definitely on the port toerail (agree Jonjo, disagree Refueler), I reckon that would do it.

Jonjo, comparing the pic with my Facnor, the furling line still looks big to me relative to the drum. Mine is actually R series not SD as here so may be a bit different, don't know which you have.


We could do with a response from the OP please...
 
Furling Gear

When we took delivery of our new Beneteau .. On the trial sail the first thing I managed to do was get the reefing line wrapped round the furling gear .. They always do that .. I was told .. But you will get the hang of it .. We spent a happy two weeks up and down the Orwell and I kept managing to wrap the line .. A rumage in the dingy bits found a small block and we now have a line with a block that holds it in exactly the right place .. Not done it again in last two years .. We charted a boat in Turkey .. Same as ours .. Someone had removed the block from the stansion and taken the line straight to the furling gear .. Worked but the line was chaffing and not very tidy ..

Were you ripped off ...

YES

Probable take five mins to bend it all back again ..
 
logbook

ask them for the log book as it might be noticed by the previous people who took the boot out as they told you some thing about it. so in my opinion there was something already wrong with it...
 
As others have said it all seems very strange.

If you are concerned about it (i.e. it was enough money to worry about) write to them and ask them

(a) for an explanation of what caused it and therefore why they think that you are liable
(b) for evidence that it was not like that before you started (are you sure that you did cause it?)
(c) for a copy of the invoice / receipt for the repair or other evidence that the amount you have lost is fair in all circumstances.

If they can't answer those points then you should get your money back.
 
bedouin said:
If you are concerned about it (i.e. it was enough money to worry about) write to them and ask them

(a) for an explanation of what caused it and therefore why they think that you are liable
(
Click to expand...
??? That is like denying the right of a car hire company to retain a deposit unless THEY can explain how you put a dent in the body work.

Is that what you meant?
 
When you pulled the furled sail out with the furling line, did the wind catch the sail in a big way and suddenly unfurl with speed and at great force?
The line could then have been caught up in some way. To cause a bend like that in the 'guard' would need a great deal of force.
I have learnt to allow my genoa to be fed out a little more gently these days to prevent excess strain on all the associated bits and pieces.
What size of boat was it and was it fitted with a jib or genoa? The furler doesn't look man enough for a craft of 30 feet or more if a genoa was fitted.
To have that type of furlers specifications, matched with the size of sail used in this instance may shed some light as to whether it is man enough for the job.
If it were a 32 footer with a 140% genoa and you allowed it to race out from its furled position in a hurry with a line being in the wrong place, an incredible force is possible to have been put on the 'guard'.
With a chartered yacht where the charterer warned you of a possible problem with the drum puts a great deal of onus back on the charterer I reckon, as they knew it was not man enough for the job.
Bits and pieces need to be bombproof with charter boats as those using them are likely to get something wrong as crews feel their way for the first few hours.
 
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Scotty_Twister said:
To have that type of furlers specifications, matched with the size of sail used in this instance may shed some light as to whether it is man enough for the job.
Click to expand...
Why? My facnor furler takes a 400 sq ft genoa.

It is a poor design but not sure why you consider it undersized.
 
Yes ... having studied photos again - it is led port side ... I used the second of the two photos before to try and fathom out how damage was made ... first photo does show guide block on pulpit port side - very low I might add !

To Scotty ... I disagree about it being undersized gear ..
 
jonjo said:
??? That is like denying the right of a car hire company to retain a deposit unless THEY can explain how you put a dent in the body work.

Is that what you meant?
Click to expand...
Not quite - more like what is "reasonable wear and tear" - the car analogy might be the hire company charging you for a new gear box because it happened to fail while you were renting it.

It is up to the co to show (on the balance of probabilities) that the charterer was responsible for the damage, and that it was not due to any latent defect or fault of installation.

Since no one on this forum has yet come up with a reasonable explanation of how that specific form of damage was caused why not ask the charter company
 
Scotty_Twister said:
What size of boat was it and was it fitted with a jib or genoa? The furler doesn't look man enough for a craft of 30 feet or more if a genoa was fitted.
Click to expand...

Do you have a Facnor furler to judge or are you guessing?
This model SD165 is rated for 30-37ft boat in their catalogue. We still don't know the size of the boat in question anyway.
I have a slightly smaller model and no complaints about it with a 29ft boat with a masthead 140% genoa.

http://www.facnor.com/uk/products/headsail_furlers/racing_range/fichiers/headsail-angl_2.pdf
 
bedouin said:
Not quite - more like what is "reasonable wear and tear" - the car analogy might be the hire company charging you for a new gear box because it happened to fail while you were renting it.

It is up to the co to show (on the balance of probabilities) that the charterer was responsible for the damage, and that it was not due to any latent defect or fault of installation.

Since no one on this forum has yet come up with a reasonable explanation of how that specific form of damage was caused why not ask the charter company
Click to expand...

I find it significant that original poster hasn't answered ANY questions, supplied any other detail ... denied it was anchor or other related ... It's like throw a bone in the arena ... get all to fight and squabble over it and just watch ...

Come on "Marcoinlondon" ... whats the story ?
 
Nigel, I suspect it is a genuine question by someone who feels he has a greivance but is'nt sure. The problem here is incomplete information and without fuller facts we are speculating as to the cause and the cost. Seems fairly clear that this sort of damage is'nt caused by normal use of the furling gear but without knowing the extent of the retention of the security deposit, we cannot advise him on whether he's being ripped off or not.
 
jimi said:
Nigel, I suspect it is a genuine question by someone who feels he has a greivance but is'nt sure. The problem here is incomplete information and without fuller facts we are speculating as to the cause and the cost. Seems fairly clear that this sort of damage is'nt caused by normal use of the furling gear but without knowing the extent of the retention of the security deposit, we cannot advise him on whether he's being ripped off or not.
Click to expand...

Exactly ... quite agree. I don't doubt it's genuine question. But still remains that there's been a significant period from start of thread ... many bleats and blurts of peeps opinions ... nothing from OP. Maybe he's away on a trip or another charter boat !! :D
 
Have we been conned ... an update

First of all my apologies for the delay in following up the start of my initial posting. Thank you very much for all your replies. Really appreciated. Some of you asked some questions:

Name/shame: As much as I would like to do this and prevent other enthusiasts from falling into the same trap I am a bit reluctant. If this is all my fault afterall then I make things even worse. Slander?

Money: I lost my £ 600 deposit. This a quote from the email I received -
"I am now in receipt of the yards estimate of repair which is part £758 plus vat ex Sailspar plus fitting at another circa £200 which means we will have to shell out the difference between your security deposit and the final bill."

Bent drum back in place: This a quote from the email I received -
"The drum blades are bent up problem being they are alloy and when you try to straighten them they crack there is also evidence of grinding on base."

Anchor related: Impossible. We did not use the anchor those two days.


I am still confused as how the damage happened. The conditions were very mild and no incidents occurred during our charter.

So far I have not received the official invoice. Not a great sign, right? I am very much in two minds if I should present this case to a solicitor ....

What do you all think? Should I take this further? Oh and again once more apologies for not staying on top of my thread.
 
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