Have I've bought too small a Rocna for my type of anchoring?

[Vid]

I have an 24ft yacht of about 1 tonne weight and bought a 4kg Rocna anchor at the boatshow. According to Rocna I really should have a 6kg anchor which is rated for strong holding in winds up to 50kts.

I'm unlikely ever to experience 50kts whilst at anchor - I single-handedly sail in the Thames Estuary and anchor about five nights a year in places such as Stangate Creek, Harty Ferry, Hamford Water and at the entrance to the Roach - all good East Coast mud. I only go to these places in July or August and, as I have a bigle keel, tend to anchor in shallow water where the boat may dry out if there is an overnight low tide.

If I thought it was going to be a windy night I would be unlikely to anchor at all, but I do carry a spare 4kg Bruce which I could also deploy plus a 2kg danforth as a kedge.

My previous anchor was a borrowed 6kg CQR which held well when once tested in a bouncy night at Harty Ferry when other boats' anchors dragged. I have not yet had a chance to put my 4kg anchor to the test but a planned sailing week in July is making me think again.

As Rocna reputedly hold so much better than the older designs, and as I plan to be well within the weather conditions is my smaller anchor going to be adequate? I've not actually used it yet.

(nb if your answer is going to be "I would follow manufacturer recommendations" then please spare your reply as we'll take that response for granted and it may well be the right one: what I'm interested in is a discussion around the conditions/rating.)

 

[J Neeves]

You seem to suggest you are anchoring in estuarine muds and I might suggest you read this thread from the beginning or if you are short of time start at Post 39

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?398612-Transforming-a-Delta-anchor-into-a-Rocna/page4

In a 24' boat a Fortress seems a better bet anyway, light for its surface area, ideal for mud and easy to store

We used to anchor our J24 with a genuine 10kg CQR (which was the most inconvenient thing to store) and did overnight but if it had been forecast to have been 25 knots or more, we would have stayed at home. This was back in the 1980's when design choice, chandler stocks and anchor wars (or education) was limited. I'm not sure that too many people actually anchor and are subject to 50 knots. Lots anchor when the wind is 50 knots but unless they are mad or unlucky they anchor in shelter (where the wind is much less).

Jonathan

 

[oldbilbo]

.....as I plan to be well within the weather conditions is my smaller anchor going to be adequate? I've not actually used it yet.

It is 'leading with the chin' to offer a recommendation on anchors/anchoring in these forums, but WTH..... It would probably be 'common ground' for most here to consider your new 4kg Rocna to be erring on the 'minimalist' side of the argument. I sense from your post that you suspect that yourself. The question is, will it do the job you hope it will, every time you need it to do so? And that's impossible for anyone to know.... until afterwards.

It may very well do what you require of it during your week's cruise in July and, if so, your confidence in it will be reinforced. However, sooner or later, conditions of wind/gusts/sea state/fetch/nature of bottom will conspire against you and it is then you will - just as the rest of us would - want and need a good reserve of capability in your anchor gear.

My own preference, developed and reinforced over a lot of years, is for 'more' rather than 'less' in the ground tackle department.

I note the 6kg Rocna has about 30% more fluke area than the one you have, and that must translate into around 1/3 more holding capacity, or 'bollard pull', or whatever the experts describe it as. It seems clear that the crucial factor in 'relative performance' is the weight of bottom mud ( resistance to breakout ) and therefore, other things being equal ( and I know they're not quite equal ), a big lump of bottom mud/sand/Kentish marl and pebbles is preferable to a little one.

Your boat is quite light, and may well 'sail' about in gusts - and in a wind-over-tide chop, she'll probably pitch quite a lot more than a heavier boat. Those motions will tend to make your small Rocna throw in the towel before a heftier hook would.

Why not borrow a 10 or 12kg Danforth for your holiday cruise? Then if you find yourself needing more 'grip', you'll have something that's probably well up to the job.

 

[simonfraser]

this thread will rapidly develop into a 'my anchor / scope is best'

i would stick with the 4kg job, easy to handle, and have lots of scope, F whatever x depth has not failed me in a creek, yet.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I think you will be fine in East Coast mud. I have a Manson Supreme which according to the book is too light for my boat BUT like you, I anchor in sheltered waters and it's been fine. I do have an oversized Fortress as a kedge/extra anchor which also is excellent in mud. Try it out this summer and see how you get on. Really dig it in with the engine at full chat and I think you will be fine. When 7 do this the boat stops dead.

 

[William_H]

Obviously for anchoring gear heavier is better. However this must be checked against cost and weight. Weight being a concern both as mass in the bow and weight that you have to handle in recovering it. I can't help feeling however that if you can exchange your unused 4kg for a 6kg with added cash then the extra 2kg would be well worth carrying /lifting for the added holding power. Holding power will translate to peace of mind for you one day. If you can't exchange then the 4kg might still be worth keeping as akedge or picnic anchor with a few metres of chain attached and a lot of rope. good luck olewill

 

[Vid]

I decided to change the anchor - I now have the 6kg Rocna, all for about £30 extra on top of the returned anchor.

First thoughts are that it is much bigger and I'll definitely be secure with this thing on my boat - so I will sleep more soundly - but it will be quite a beast to manhandle on my own.

 

[rob2]

Spare a thought for those of us whose anchors weigh in at three times that weight! I guess the thing to remember is that the expression "drop the anchor" shouldn't be taken too literally. No-one expects to be able to stroll up to the bow with all their ground tackle in one hand simply to be tossed over the side and job done. For stress-free anchoring it helps a lot if you can flake out the scope on deck with the anchor sitting on the bow roller ready to go before you finally arrive at your chosen spot - although that may involve pottering about to check the actual depth around the area and then standing off to prepare the tackle. So long as you can launch the anchor with one hand, then its not too heavy but don't drop all the scope on top of it immediately or it may foul, feed it out as the boat drops back. Sorry for the "Grandmother: egg sucking" approach, but I don't see 6kg as too much weight to handle... and I'm getting on a bit.

Rob.

 

[westernman]

The most important thing about an anchor for holding is its surface area.

The heavier it is, and the more pointed it is, the easier it will be to dig in on bottoms which are not ideal. The fisherman scores top for this.

Some designs will reliably reset or stay dug in when the tide turns.

If going from a CQR to a Rocna I would definitely not downsize.

I have a 75lbs CQR on my boat (30 tonnes and 67ft LOS). Last time we anchored, the 45ft AWB next to us with a delta anchor dragged and ended up bouncing around on the beach. They were towed off by the rescue services (whose station was only about 1/2 mile away) with no apparent damage.

Size matters more than anything else when it comes to anchors.

 

[vyv_cox]

Last time we anchored, the 45ft AWB next to us with a delta anchor dragged and ended up bouncing around on the beach. They were towed off by the rescue services (whose station was only about 1/2 mile away) with no apparent damage.

Unfortunately that doesn't prove anything. In the last couple of days we have witnessed anchorers with quite a variety of equipment who didn't seem to have a clue how to set them. Boats dragging all over the bay in the current gusty conditions, whereas others, also with a wide variety of anchors, have no problem at all. It beats me why anyone would drop their anchor and then not test its holding with plenty revs astern, but few seem to do so.

 

[NormanS]

I had a wee chuckle at Neeves' suggestion, in #2, that if the wind is forecast to be 25+ knots, the answer is to stay at home. Not a relevant choice for someone on a cruise then.

I was also surprised that michaelchapman, #9, has only a 75lb CQR on a 67 ft boat. My previous boat was 60ft, and my CQR (type) was 140lb, and I never felt that it was too big or heavy.

 

[Iliade]

I was fishing the other day, conditions were F4-5, sea-state surprisingly calm though it was spring tide, so about a knot and a half running with the wind. As I couldn't be bothered to haul back the main anchor & chain I tied two long lengths of old 6mm dyneema to the 5m of 6mm chain on the dinghy's 2' long (~4kg?) CQR and bunged that in. (boat: 26', ~4 tons)

It bit eventually and after hanging off it for an hour or so it was time to troll towards home...

Luckily I had crew aboard and was able to motor into the anchor to trip it whilst variously holding it on the bow cleat or hauling in as appropriate! I'd never realised that little hook could hold so well! Solo with a flat sea, I would probably have had to buoy it off and come back later.

 

[CaptainBob]

We anchored off Harty Ferry and then Sharfleet Creek a few years ago over the course of a few days. Wind forecast to be 30 knots ended up being considerably over 50 in the gusts, some prolonged. We had a 15kg Rocna on a 30 foot boat, and no winch. It never let us down and manhandling was fine and got easier with practice. Should think a 6kg will cause you little trouble in that regard.

Additional. When asleep at anchor and the wind picks up, one night, you'll wish you'd bought the next one up, whichever one you settle on. It's amazing how high a price I put on sleep when woken from it in the wee smalls.

 

[Vid]

I used the new 6kg Rocna for the first time this weekend, anchoring for a few hours in Stangate Creek. Very happy with the anchor - easy to handle, set first time, felt very secure when the thunderstorm blew through with a few strong gusts. It's reassuring that a) the anchor is unlikely to drag and b) if it does then it will re-set rather than ploughing a furrow. It also came up quite clean, which was a bonus.

I'm pleased I upgraded, I think the extra size is well worth it.

 

[vyv_cox]

It also came up quite clean, which was a bonus.

Not always the case, though.

 

[NormanS]

Not always the case, though.]

Interesting to see that. My Bruce does that occasionally as a party piece.

 

[sailaboutvic]

What was the saying , ? Oh yes , if the anchor drags under engine , it will surely drag when the wind blows hard .

Bluewatersailsailorcroatia.webs.com

 

[Storyline]

..... It beats me why anyone would drop their anchor and then not test its holding with plenty revs astern, but few seem to do so.

Same thing in Scotland. Has been going on for years, people just chucking them over, veering chain and then staring around looking at transits even when they have not used any reverse ! This is not just a few, it is the overwhelming majority. Surely most people must have a slight grasp of physics and realise that a boat will not show if it is dragging or not unless it has come on it's chain ?

Given the number of threads on here over the past year which have gone into the minutiae of good anchoring technique I have been expecting things to improve but in both our cruises so far this year nothing has changed. Very strange.

To address the o/p, our experience has been that our Rocna does not perform as well in soft mud as our CQR used to.

 

[sailorman]

I have an 24ft yacht of about 1 tonne weight and bought a 4kg Rocna anchor at the boatshow. According to Rocna I really should have a 6kg anchor which is rated for strong holding in winds up to 50kts.

I'm unlikely ever to experience 50kts whilst at anchor - I single-handedly sail in the Thames Estuary and anchor about five nights a year in places such as Stangate Creek, Harty Ferry, Hamford Water and at the entrance to the Roach - all good East Coast mud. I only go to these places in July or August and, as I have a bigle keel, tend to anchor in shallow water where the boat may dry out if there is an overnight low tide.

If I thought it was going to be a windy night I would be unlikely to anchor at all, but I do carry a spare 4kg Bruce which I could also deploy plus a 2kg danforth as a kedge.

My previous anchor was a borrowed 6kg CQR which held well when once tested in a bouncy night at Harty Ferry when other boats' anchors dragged. I have not yet had a chance to put my 4kg anchor to the test but a planned sailing week in July is making me think again.

As Rocna reputedly hold so much better than the older designs, and as I plan to be well within the weather conditions is my smaller anchor going to be adequate? I've not actually used it yet.

(nb if your answer is going to be "I would follow manufacturer recommendations" then please spare your reply as we'll take that response for granted and it may well be the right one: what I'm interested in is a discussion around the conditions/rating.)

Get a 5 > 7.5kg Genuine Bruce for East Coast mud

 

[vyv_cox]

To address the o/p, our experience has been that our Rocna does not perform as well in soft mud as our CQR used to.

Which seems to bear out the results of the tests recently carried out by Fortress, although I only know what Brian (Fortress) has posted, not the full results. It follows though, as the CQR was developed by a Thames sailor in the 1930s. 'Some of the tests were carried out by dragging the anchors horizontally along the foreshore just after the tide had left it, while others were made from a boat anchored by means of a very large anchor in the River Crouch.' Sir Geoffrey Ingham Taylor, 1934, The holding power of anchors.