Hats off to Sealine

[MikeJ42]

Actually, the fact that Sealine are still building starter size boats is not necessarily something that they deserve to be praised for. In fact, if you're being really picky, you could criticise them for it. The fact is that the value of the Sealine brand is not as high as the other 3 big UK builders. What this means, and Sealine know this, is that Sealine can't sell boats much beyond 50ft because at this level, they competing with more prestigious brands. They've boxed themselves into 25-50ft sector of the market because the credibility of their brand doesn't stretch further than this. This would be fine if it weren't for the fact that this sector is one of the most competitive areas of the market and Sealine have to compete with products manufactured by companies with much lower cost bases than they have. In contrast, the other 3 builders have worked hard to establish their brand in the 50-100ft sector where the market is less congested and the profits potentially higher.
As for Sealine introducing innovative new designs, they've had to do that to make their product stand out in the most crowded sector of the market. None of the other 3 builders have innovated such radical new designs because they haven't had to; their brand credibility allows them to sell boats in less competitive areas of the market without betting the farm on a radical new design direction

Afraid I don’t get your point? Sealine compete in the £100-£400K sector. Their design brief is tailored to succeed in that specific sector.

It is actually much easier to build products for the bespoke or high end market. That’s why you see a dozen new super car manufacturers pop up every year, but not many new family hatchback manufactureres.

 

[benjenbav]

I think Sealine are trying to do what BMW did in the seventies and eighties to focus on an aspect of their product and set it apart from the competition. BMW did it by focusing on "the ultimate driving machine" a slogan with undertones of engineering excellence plus performance which took the product out of the ultracompetitive mid-market. Here's an example from 1980:

Sealine are trying to be different by design. I hope it works for them. I do think that in five years time they will be seen as slightly separate from the other members of the UK big four and not as the one which focuses on giving the buyer more space for a given size of craft.

 

[ari]

I also think that the Sealine business is currently more stable than the other 3

Really!!? Based on what?

 

[rafiki_]

A colleague supplies the UK and many overseas builders, and this is his take on the current situation, and his summary from fellow suppliers. it is all about cash flow at the moment.

 

[PEJ]

In contrast, the other 3 builders have worked hard to establish their brand in the 50-100ft sector where the market is less congested and the profits potentially higher.

There is a very good reason why Sealine don't venture in to the 60ft plus market. They simply can not build them in their factory in a trading estate in Kidderminster. There is not enough room and they cant transport them to the sea. If like SS they had a shore based facility they could build bigger.

 

[ari]

A colleague supplies the UK and many overseas builders, and this is his take on the current situation, and his summary from fellow suppliers. it is all about cash flow at the moment.

Well it's a very interesting take...!

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Those car comparisons are never good, mostly because the boat market is a fraction of the size of the automarket. It is indeed about 1% of the car market. Boat is also still a bit of a regional thing. You go in the UK you see a lot of British build boats, go to France and its same, and in Italy etc etc
Whatever the case Sealine will have a high ride as BeneJean are competing with their teeth in the sub fifty size as are also doing some other competitors like Sessa, Galeon Azimut with Atlantis, and Astondoa with Faeton. To name a few.
I think Sealine lost the battle a few years back in the fifty plus feet, as their product the T51/52 was not perceived as top end. Princess also had this problem but I think in the end first with the M series then with the MY they did manage to over come this obstacle, mostly thanks to a high regard coming from the smaller more production models. Fairline did a super job with the Squadron series back in the early ninties.
This relation to bigger sizes also comes to what you offer in the small sub 50 feet sizes. Sealine where in the past about building practial boats which offer the most space in their size segment. The Sealine brand was never about luxury back in the days altough the newer models are more glittery then the old ones. But if you compare you still loose.
Compare the SC35 with a 38 Targa and this last is definitly more luxury fitted then the first with a price difference of less to 10k (if I am remembering well) with same engines.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

There is a very good reason why Sealine don't venture in to the 60ft plus market. They simply can not build them in their factory in a trading estate in Kidderminster. There is not enough room and they cant transport them to the sea. If like SS they had a shore based facility they could build bigger.

Er, would it not have occured to somebody in Sealine to build another factory near the sea for building the bigger boats, if they thought there was a market?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I think Sealine lost the battle a few years back in the fifty plus feet, as their product the T51/52 was not perceived as top end.

Thats exactly my point. They didn't look after their brand sufficiently well to allow them to move into the 50ft+ market where competition is less fierce

Btw I'm not knocking Sealine boats at all. I've owned 3 of them and 2 of them were excellent boats by any standard

 

[rafiki_]

Whatever the brand snobbery, I still believe that Sealine is forging a slightly new direction for their brand with their styling direction. The BMW analogy holds water for me in the way that BMW broke styling constraints with their Chris Bangle direction 10 years or so ago. The 7 series led the way, and I thought this horrible. Then came the Z4, X5 and then the e 60/61 5 series and 90/91 3 series. I was not sure about the 5 to start with, but it quickly made the Merc E and Audi 6 look very dated. The latest 5 is an evolution, but it has separated BMW from Audi and Merc. They had to do this as Merc had eaten into BMW territory with great handling C and E products, even though they lost the plot on reliability.

Back to Sealine, and I think they Sealine will be copied. In fact I think we are seeing this with the Jeaneau hard tops.

 

[Tom Price]

[QUOTE=rb_stretch:
"as an ex-raggie"
Ex? What happened to the RM 880?

 

[jhr]

Parenthood - specifically triplets, iirc!

 

[halcyon]

Thats exactly my point. They didn't look after their brand sufficiently well to allow them to move into the 50ft+ market where competition is less fierce

Part of the brand problem went back to early 1990's when they de-spec'd the boats to the level of Marine Projects. From our side this included changing from 3 battery banks to two, and from multi stage mains charger, single voltage, single bank. The funny thing was at the same time I was working with Marine Projects to up-rate the Prince switchgear to Sealine spec.

Regarding the 50 foot plus boat, for a number of years in the mid 1990's Tom talked of a large Sealine when he had a suitable workshop. He always referred to it as a 'proper boat', from what he said it was to be a Trader type, and the switchgear we were looking at assumed a separate helm station. It was a bit of a shock when the T51 came out as no more than an extension to the current range.

Brian

 

[rwoofer]

Yes Triplets meant I only got out for 2 day sails in a year. Losing my job last year pretty much sealed it, so I sold to a french actor who now sails it out of Concarneau.

Now back in a job with an eye on the market (with mobos as a potential solution), but don't expect to be in a realistic position to buy for 2/3 years. Getting sailing fix from dinghies on a local reservoir, which I'm really enjoying as I can leave home, race and be back 3 hours later.

 

[petem]

In contrast, the other 3 builders have worked hard to establish their brand in the 50-100ft sector where the market is less congested and the profits potentially higher.

That's a bit of a hackneyed view IMHO. There's plenty of large yacht manufacturers with huge debts (Ferretti for instance) and lots of manufacturers of smaller boats that have the potential of making huge profits.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That's a bit of a hackneyed view IMHO. There's plenty of large yacht manufacturers with huge debts (Ferretti for instance) and lots of manufacturers of smaller boats that have the potential of making huge profits.

Ferretti didnt get into debt because they built 50ft+ boats. They got into debt because the private equity company, Candover, that bought them in 2006 loaded the company with £1bn+ worth of debt when they did so. Luckily, the money men got their fingers well and truly burnt when they were obliged to walk away from their investment in 2009 and sold the company back to the original founder, Norberto Ferretti, for nothing.

 

[petem]

Fair enuff.

Pete

 

[MikeJ42]

Er, would it not have occured to somebody in Sealine to build another factory near the sea for building the bigger boats, if they thought there was a market?

Far from Sealine failing to capitalise on the 50ft plus market, I would say that Fairline / Princess / Sunseeker have been sent packing from the sub-50ft market.

Those 3 manufacturers have been pushed out of the reckoning because they were unable to build competitively priced boats.

Didn't Sunseeker recently sell for less than the price of one of their flybridge boats?

Pound for pound, the gap has closed on build quality between all manufacturers. Fairline might use a shinier door knob than Sealine but the difference is not what it was in the 90's.