Hats off to Sealine

[Whitelighter]

For being the only one of the big 4 British builders producing new models for the average man.

The drawings for the new F36 (to replace the F37) and the S28 look stunning. OK, so the F36 is a scaled down version of the (imho) brilliant F46 and F42 so perhaps not all that surprising, but the drawing of the S28 looks fantastic, with yet more of Sealine's innovation that no doubt many others will copy.

Edgy styling looks bang up to date and I pleased to see that it will be a proper open sports boat with an arch. Oh, and I love the idea of the door to the side decks to allow for a more voluminous cockpit.

Our next motorboat could well be a Sealine if the finished boats look like the artists impressions!

 

[alt]

Any pics of the new S28?

 

[Whitelighter]

I tried and failed.

Though they are in the new MBM I don't think IPC would thank me for scanning and posting pics from a mag not out til tomorrow.

Not even on the Sealine site so a definite scoop.

It looked pretty good though, a little bit of Windy Zonda about her and the side door looks interesting

 

[rafiki_]

I agree with you. Sealine are making some very impressive boats, with interesting styling and fantastic packaging. I'm sure that there will be several on here that will criticise the fit and finish, but the F42 at LIBS was as good as anything in that size, and much better than the Bav and French efforts. For me the SC35 is high on my "next boat" wish list, with my only real criticism, access to the volvo's if (when) they need to be pulled out. You have to chobble through miles of sealant. Getting it back together would be a real mission.

 

[Whitelighter]

Yes I agree with you. I love the F series and the smaller S/SC series. Dont like the SC47 though, or the SC42 from what I have seen. Not sure why, I just think they look a bit ungainly un like the F series.

If I was going to buy a 40ft plus hard top it would be the Beneteau Monte Carlo 42 for me, but I'm not so its a bit irrelevant. Conversly, I dont like the smaller Monte's - the 27 32 and new flyer 34 GT or whatever its called dont seem to have used the space well.

Mid range HT I would go for the New Concept 11 Jeanneau - great boat at a great price, but I do like the Sealine F series and the 36 is much much closer to even my top end budget than the other two, and the S28 looks absolutely spot on

 

[ricky_s]

For being the only one of the big 4 British builders producing new models for the average man.
!

The average man must have had a pay rise!

 

[asteven221]

When the new Sealines came out I thought yikes they are a bit weird. Now that I have got used to the design and having looked at the F42 and F46 at close quarters, suddenely they seem to make everything else look a bit dated.

The F46 is the only boat I have been on that has an echo when you go through the saloon doors - it's that blooming cavernous!

In saying that, the F46 I looked at did did make me think that they should have spent a bit more on some aspects of the finish. It's mainly minor things but nonethless for a boat of that price I would not expect these shortfalls. Maybe it's just teething problems. The F42 I looked at was only delivered a couple of weeks ago and seems better finished, although I only looked from the outside and didn't venture in.

 

[petem]

In 2009 the average salary was around £26,000. The top 1% of the population earn over around £120,000 so I think that Sealine are realistically aiming their 'starter model' at the top 1% of the population.

 

[Whitelighter]

Its not all about salary though is it? Lets face it home ownership is almost 10 times what it was 60 years ago, and a lot of people are inheriting.

Plus, I bought a boat at not quite £100k with a salary of significantly less than £120k. In fact, I could afford the S28 at £100k and I consider myself to be pretty average (still way less than £120k by the way).

It was the S28 not the F36 I was referring to with the 'average man' comment

 

[rwoofer]

Its not all about salary though is it? Lets face it home ownership is almost 10 times what it was 60 years ago, and a lot of people are inheriting.

Plus, I bought a boat at not quite £100k with a salary of significantly less than £120k. In fact, I could afford the S28 at £100k and I consider myself to be pretty average (still way less than £120k by the way).

It was the S28 not the F36 I was referring to with the 'average man' comment

Just cross-referencing with the other thread, where you're thinking about the £400k Moody. Not wanting to pry, but I get the impression that mobo owners (or ex-Mobo owners) seem more willing to either use finance or stretch themselves to get their boats. There was a poll on scuttlebutt and I seem to remember that most peoples raggie boats cost less than salary (done as a percentage to save embarrassment). Be interesting to see the results of an equivalent poll on here, or has it been done and I missed it.

Edit: to keep thread on track, as an ex-raggie the sealines definitely appeal - you just seem to get so much more for your boat.

 

[mateyboy]

I know a guy who has more cards than Paul Daniels, a 90k car and up until recently a 170k boat and earns about 60-70k pa. Moral of the story? His accountant is a damn genius.

 

[mil1194]

I know a guy who has more cards than Paul Daniels, a 90k car and up until recently a 170k boat and earns about 60-70k pa. Moral of the story? His accountant is a damn genius.

Have you got his number?

 

[bumpy_the_dog]

I get the impression that mobo owners (or ex-Mobo owners) seem more willing to either use finance or stretch themselves to get their boats. There was a poll on scuttlebutt and I seem to remember that most peoples raggie boats cost less than salary (done as a percentage to save embarrassment). Be interesting to see the results of an equivalent poll on here, or has it been done and I missed it.
QUOTE]

+1

I've owned sail and power, and I also get the impression that sail owners are more prudently financed. But having said that, it would imply that the power boat business should be getting murdered from both ends at the moment, falling house prices cutting off funding and rocketing fuel prices driving up costs. Yet I just don't see any evidence for that much carnage. Certainly Lymington Haven aren't exactly falling over themselves to tempt me to become a berth holder!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Actually, the fact that Sealine are still building starter size boats is not necessarily something that they deserve to be praised for. In fact, if you're being really picky, you could criticise them for it. The fact is that the value of the Sealine brand is not as high as the other 3 big UK builders. What this means, and Sealine know this, is that Sealine can't sell boats much beyond 50ft because at this level, they competing with more prestigious brands. They've boxed themselves into 25-50ft sector of the market because the credibility of their brand doesn't stretch further than this. This would be fine if it weren't for the fact that this sector is one of the most competitive areas of the market and Sealine have to compete with products manufactured by companies with much lower cost bases than they have. In contrast, the other 3 builders have worked hard to establish their brand in the 50-100ft sector where the market is less congested and the profits potentially higher.
As for Sealine introducing innovative new designs, they've had to do that to make their product stand out in the most crowded sector of the market. None of the other 3 builders have innovated such radical new designs because they haven't had to; their brand credibility allows them to sell boats in less competitive areas of the market without betting the farm on a radical new design direction

 

[[2068]]

"Much lower cost bases".

Hmmm, like Windy, who manage to produce a 31ft open boat costing £240k?

Most of the USA boats don't look to be priced too well either at the moment, due to exchange rates.

Their main competition at the lower end is Bavaria / Beneteau / Sessa. I don't think Sealine are trying to out-Princess Princess.

With a smallish workforce, hi-tech(ish) construction methods, many components sourced from the UK, and no thumping great loan to have to keep servicing, I would have thought that their cost base would be quite reasonable.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

"Much lower cost bases".

Hmmm, like Windy, who manage to produce a 31ft open boat costing £240k?

Most of the USA boats don't look to be priced too well either at the moment, due to exchange rates.

Their main competition at the lower end is Bavaria / Beneteau / Sessa. I don't think Sealine are trying to out-Princess Princess.

With a smallish workforce, hi-tech(ish) construction methods, many components sourced from the UK, and no thumping great loan to have to keep servicing, I would have thought that their cost base would be quite reasonable.

I dont think for one moment that Windy consider Sealine to be a competitor. As for cost base, a small workforce does not mean a low cost base. In fact, it probably means quite the opposite. I dont think Sealine have any construction methods that the others dont have that gives them a competitive edge. If you know better, I'm happy to be educated. And I dont see how Sealine could be sourcing components from the UK that the other's can't. Such as what?
When I said low cost base, what I meant was low cost base in terms of economy of scale. Beneteau/Jeanneau/Bayliner/ Bavaria to name a few all make boats in far higher quantities than Sealine and that would usually give them a cost advantage (unless those companies are mismanaged). Its true that Sealine do have a temporary advantage from the weak Sterling at the moment but that is not going to be long term and in any case, major material and component costs eg engines, resin, fibreglass mat/strands are denominated in foreign currency

 

[[2068]]

There are some big ticket items like engines or large sections of glass that will be priced in Euros that they won't be able to escape.

But resin and mat? No idea what the actual cost of resin and mat is in a production 35ft boat, but I suspect it might be smaller than you think. The trick is getting the resin and mat in the right shape before it sets

Whatever we say about sourcing across the EU, there will inevitably be a host of French bits on a Jeanneau, German bits on a Bavaria, and Brummie bits on a Sealine.

Furniture and galley assemblies must also be a substantial cost, and not the sort of thing you are going to manufacture in Poland and load onto a lorry. Yet!

And anyway, people buy Sealines based on what they see in front of them, not because of the badge, which as you say, works fine up to 50ft or so. If they keep producing designs that look good and work on a practical level, people will keep buying them.

dv.

 

[wonky]

In 2009 the average salary was around £26,000. The top 1% of the population earn over around £120,000 so I think that Sealine are realistically aiming their 'starter model' at the top 1% of the population.

Well I certainly don't earn 120k but have bought Antares 30.

Of course I have no wife or kids

 

[rafiki_]

I'm not convinced that Fair/Sun/Prin make a better 42 Fly than Sealine, and I specifically looked hard at these at LIBS. In this category, the Sealine is the one for me.

The SC35 does not compete with Fair/Sun/Prin boats, but also to me is best in class.

I'm not convinced about the Sealine F46. It is a brave boat, and carved the way for the 42, but is not as good in many areas as competitors.

So I am not in the camp that says Sealine are not as good as Fair/Sun/Prin, I think it is horses for courses. I also think that the Sealine business is currently more stable than the other 3, and I think that cash flow is a real problem to them at the moment, which could easily compromise their quality now, and future competitiveness, if they are unable to invest sufficiently in their products.

Sealine are forging a brave direction at the moment, and only history will tell us if it is successful.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

But resin and mat? No idea what the actual cost of resin and mat is in a production 35ft boat, but I suspect it might be smaller than you think. The trick is getting the resin and mat in the right shape before it sets

Resin and mat is sold in US $ so there's a currency factor there too. When you say the cost might be 'smaller than I think' what info do you base that on?

Whatever we say about sourcing across the EU, there will inevitably be a host of French bits on a Jeanneau, German bits on a Bavaria, and Brummie bits on a Sealine.

So what? If French bits were substantially cheaper than 'Brummie' bits, Sealine would buy French bits and of course, vica versa. The EU is a free market and boat builders can buy from anywhere so no boat builder can buy the same bits cheaper than another unless they're buying in larger quantities which, of course, Jeanneau/Beneteau are

Furniture and galley assemblies must also be a substantial cost, and not the sort of thing you are going to manufacture in Poland and load onto a lorry. Yet!

Except that the timber comes from abroad and once again, if you're making 100 galley assemblies per month, its going to be cheaper than making 5 a month. So, again, the bigger builders have an advantage in cost

And anyway, people buy Sealines based on what they see in front of them, not because of the badge, which as you say, works fine up to 50ft or so. If they keep producing designs that look good and work on a practical level, people will keep buying them

I'm not arguing with that only to say as I said before that Sealine have boxed themselves into the sub 50ft market which is the most competitive market