Hardtop in hot summer? Which type is best compromise for all year in the Mediterranean?

[Pavila]

Dear forum, this question may has been asked already, but for me it has not yet been fully answered. So here again in the hope of many answers from skippers who have experiences with HT boats in hot summers.

I was torn between Open and HT, but after reading a lot of positive threads about HT and feeling that most new boats now have HT, open at least to the rear, I think on my next and probably last boat for the Greek Aegean I should opt for a HT boat (around 35 feet).

Because summer is very hot and winter is cool, we like to go open but of course need sun protection, in the evening we like to lie in the city harbor with high temperatures but hardly any wind. Also it can suddenly pour properly and we want to go all year round. Here are my questions:

- Fixed or fabric sunroof?
- How do you get the engine noise under control on a fixed roof?
- Side windows with hatches, half windows or better completely open?
- Open at the back or with a door?
- Air conditioning in the cockpit?

I thank you for your reports and the latest experiences!

 

[mcanderson]

Hello Pav,

People on here can be very vocal on why their boat is the greatest ever made so all advice should be treated with caution.
However, there is lots of helpful people who will be happy to help.
We have a 37’ hardtop sports cruiser. We use the boat all year round on the Côte d’Azur. Right now it is 28 here and we have the roof half open and the side windows open. The Temp is lovely and there is a nice breeze moving around. So very comfortable. Now when the wind holds the nose of the boat facing direct into the wind and the sun is shining direct on to the back it can get hot. But this will happen with any boat in my opinion.
The noise from the engines will mainly be controlled with noise insulation. You can add to the factory insulation if you want to if want to make things quieter.

 

[Pavila]

Hello Mc! Thank you very much for your response. What boat are you driving? I am short before buying a Windy 37 Grand Mistral, the best boat for all year driving in the agean sea in my opinion. We have strong winds in july/august which leads to choppy seas, but also up to 38 degrees and no winds in some summer evenings. After owning an 9 meter open (which I loved) until march, I want to extend the season as far as possible and also need enough accomodation for my 5 heads counting family to stay overnights. I am sure I will miss my open at some nice sunny days, but overall I feel that a HT like that of the GM is the best compromise.

Would you agree? Does your boat have an a/c in cockpit?

 

[Portofino]

Hard tops are hotter , HT stands for hot top in the Med .
Theres no escaping all that glass .In the edges of the season / winter then the extra heat generated might be desirable.
We have friends with hard tops , even with the roof open , we all end up sat the back in the open air seats as it’s just too hot inside in the South of France / Italian Liguria.......in Greece without aircon you will cook in the summer
The more sophisticated larger HT s do indeed have Aircon ducts into the cockpit areas , Which is ok at the dock on shore power .

You loose sun protection with the roof open .Shade is nice after a while I prefer to eat in a breeze with shade .

HT s imho work better up north in more temperate climates or dead of winter , buts that’s not what you are asking .

 

[Pavila]

You drive me crazy, Portofino! I hoped I found the solution...?. What would you recommend instead? A pure open is not my choice because I hate the canopy work. How about an hardtop, with a roof to open and open on all four sides?

 

[Portofino]

 

[mcanderson]

Pav,

We have a Bavaria 37 Sport HT. Hard Top not Hot Top. For us it’s perfect. With lots more money we might buy another boat, but we are very happy with what we have.
We have aircon down below , but not in the cockpit. It would be a waste of effort as you are trying to aircon the world unless you are completely enclosed.
There are only two of us on our boat, and a dog, so we have lots of space. I think that for 5 people the 35-40 Ft market is okay for one or two nights, but for more you might want a bigger boat.
Windy boats look great and if you love that model and so does your family then go for it!

You can always change later if you want.

I know the seas you talk about in the Agean with the wind. We have sailed there and they are short and steep. Best avoided!

Before you buy get a very good mechanical and hull inspection!

 

[Portofino]

Not many Hot top sailing yachts in Greece , they seem to manage in the “ open “ .
Windys HTs are designed for the N sea , to keep the weather out and folks inside warm .

Are you sure you want to boat in the Med in the winter ?
Most pack it in , even haul out and hanger the boat .
As far as the canopy work it’s rare and there are some very easy fixations .
In the U.K. there’s a firm called flexi covers ...they do I think the big 3 ..Sunseeker, Princess , Fairline .
In my experience there system of runners + poppers + zips is dreadful ....it’s enough to put you off , if so completely understand your anxiety.
You can get a pull n press stud easy to attach with no force , and covers with easily adjustable straps as opposed to trying to line up a zip in a runner .So don,t automatically dismiss covers the devil is in the detail .
Hard tops with canvas, the canvas rots and the stitching degrades in the UV .

Another great design is the Sunseeker Portofino 53 , might be better for 5 , esp in the winter .
Take a google of it and ask yourself why they did it ? What problem were they solving with that roof ?

 

[lambohill]

We have a hard top in the med. It is no problem, in fact i definitely prefer it to open. We use it in 32c normally and it its open at rear and about 50% open with sunroof on a Pershing 50. In a marina we find the wind is normally north or south and we are berthed east west, so no problem. At anchor, you will blow so bow is in wind and cockpit is hotter, however, roof is open as is rear and it is more breezy at anchor so again no problem. Rain does happen in the med, so you push a button and the roof closes.
Provided the boat has a large sliding sunroof and an open rear with AC below, then hardtop advantages outweigh canvas options.
The fixed part of the hardtop on the P50 acts as a fixed bimini, the sunpad is fully outside and the sliding roof does the rest, keeping your boat clean and dry during the thundershowers. Hope this helps

 

[jrudge]

Friend has a Targa 47. I had to move it one day for him. We are in Mallorca. The heat was staggering.
Get a rag top. You only put it up once at the start of the season just like a flybridge bimini.

And the open roof gives no shade. Looks good but to me in hot places does not work.

 

[lambohill]

Friend has a Targa 47. I had to move it one day for him. We are in Mallorca. The heat was staggering.
Get a rag top. You only put it up once at the start of the season just like a flybridge bimini.

And the open roof gives no shade. Looks good but to me in hot places does not work.

I'm guessing the roof was shut as you came to it. Roof open it is no problem, I speak from a few years experience in the med during august I stay full month each year including 2020. Also you do get shade from the 50% closed part, at least on ours , never had a T47, but if they like the T50, its a fabric roof and no shade with high sides and much more enclosed than the pershing which is only 50% closed over the cockpit . I guess it depends on the boat and the amount of enclosure . I for one would buy another hardtop provided same idea of being fairly open in full use -but I am biased because I think it looks good

 

[jrudge]

No the roof was open. He was on it with an infected eye hence I had to move it.

for the U.K. I am sure they work but compared to a ventilated and shady fly bridge helm it was a no from me. Blazing sun and not much breeze.

 

[Portofino]

I think one has to look at the whole package and attempt to link as best with the intended use age .
Most of us do it .No boat is ideal its just about trying to reduce the negatives ,The Op,s intended use pattern - year round in Greece is a long span .The longer the seasonal span it , the shorter the boat, in such wider range of temps the bigger the compromises .....so the fly bridge rears it’s head ,
I accept some HT s might not be “ Hot tops “ ....like the Porto 53 design and generally Pershing .But note theses work because they are bigger and can design wise drop the front screen top rail , and reduce the relative glazed area , open up a huge hole + retain some shade .
Small sub 40 ftr Scando + N European not so sure in the Med , too glazed up proportionally .

As an aside for 5 with € 200K I would be looking at bigger .Once over a 4 m + beam they seem to suddenly gain a lot of space , opens up more design variations .

A wet boat show is always a good idea ...so you can try them see for self .

Hard Top - Med - Why?

 

[vas]

interesting thoughts, just want to note that OP says 35ft, knowing quite well the GR taxation system, OP is unlikely to want (or be able to afford) a 50footer.
So if you could focus on the size of only 35ft, would a hardtop work?
I'd go with Porto that no, it's going to be too hot, unless someone knows of a transformer 35footer that glazing folds/hides/disappears and the whole thing is nice and cool in August!
Galeon seem to be into transformers, not sure they've done a small one, anyone?

fwiw, tonight was the first night I needed to cover up at night, still temp will be over 30C by midday (of course no aircon!)

cheers

V.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Hard tops are hot and in 33 plus they become very hot. Ideally you need Air-condition under them. Soft-top versions work better.
Opening side windows help a bit but not as much as one would think. Side windows work well under way, but not so much at anchor. The best would be an opening central window forward. Few do this.
Some of the 2000s Cayman yacht models (43 ht) and Tiara models had this and really at anchor it make a zillion difference, that they feel as good as some open boats.
Side windows work well under way, but not so much at anchor.

The trick is to shade and never let sun in. I captained a Cayman 58 for a couple of years and under the grp hard-top I had a screen net, which made air circulation better, and heat sustainable at up to 32/33. Shading the whole area with the aft extension really reduced the heat.

Cayman 43 see central opening hatch.


Tiara 4300 Sovran

 

[Portofino]

Hard tops are hot and in 33 plus they become very hot.
.........//........."...
The best would be an opening central window forward. Few do this.
Some of the 2000s Cayman yacht models (43 ht) and Tiara models had this and really at anchor it make a zillion difference.

Agree .
We open ours all the time , even when running .



@vas thx for inside knowledge of Greek boat tax , explains a lot NOW .

 

[Pavila]

Thanks a lot to all you people for giving me such helpful feedback. Nevertheless I must admit that my confusion did not come to an end yet. We live in Germany, but our second home is in East Attica/Greece. We are not taxed in Greece, but we want our boat to be in our fishing-harbour near to our house. There is, as in the most small harbours all over Greece, a limitation regarding length of about 10 Meters. The Windy 37 with 11.15 is the absolute maximum length possible. Also we don’t want the boat to be too big for handling reasons and also not to be limited too much if you are in need for a save harbour. The agean sea can be quite tricky, especially in high season because of the strong north wind (called Meltemi). Therefor we want a boat that is proofed to go well in bft 5 and up. The GM stands for good behavior in choppy seas.
Most of the time we will use the boat either for short weekend-trips with the family of five plus dog or for longer trips just us two and the dog, and sometimes with a second couple. That means two bedrooms plus a convertible seating area downstairs.
We want to extend the season to the max, means February to November. Two to three months per year it will be landed for service etc. This is another reason for the maximum length, the (standard) crane truck can only handle up to 40feet. Regarding the housing we try to find a good alternative to the (ugly and anoying) canopies on open boats. As we will use the boat often for short periods we do not want to open and close canopies all the time to protect ship and interior properly. All the native Greeks with their express cruisers in our harbour leave the canopy installed for that reason. When I asked them they advised to buy a HT.

May be I try to get a square round, and for sure we have to make compromises. But I found that the Windy Grand Mistral comes closest to our needs.

Now Power and Itama say, that it is getting too hot under the hardtop. I understand their arguments. But what can be the solution, facing what was said above?

Mc seem to use their Bavaria 37 HT similar to our plans and report no problem with heat in French Riviera, where the summer should be similar to our place. May be he can give us his opinion to the cons?

Those who know the Greek boat market will understand that I try to avoid trial and error. Both buying and selling boats is really hard there. I will have to import the boat from Croatia or Italy. Selling it if it dos not fit will be a big, annoying deal.

So I am more than happy and thankful for every comment from you guys that brings me even a millimeter closer to the right decision. Thanks a lot again!!

 

[Portofino]

Just to show a new feature on the 62 .Marco Casali has updated it 62 S .....go to 28 secs ( it’s only a min btw ) .
Thats a huge vent hole !
The Bimini electrically folds away under a flap under the front screen ,it’s a feature on Riva opens too .

 

[Pavila]

Just to show a new feature on the 62 .Marco Casali has updated it 62 S .....go to 28 secs ( it’s only a min btw ) .
Thats a huge vent hole !
The Bimini electrically folds away under a flap under the front screen ,it’s a feature on Riva opens too .

Very nice idea! May be I can build something like this into my upcoming Windy to reduce heat?

 

[jrudge]

Bear in mind a canvas boat closed up with a fan heater running is pretty warm.