Hard times finally here.? Boat Auction.

[oldgit]

Had been being meaning to go to a boat auction held locally,but missed it,so this is third party info.
Spoke to a fellow club member who actually went along and bought a small boat and quizzed him about attendance and prices.
Several small Seamaster type motor boats went for sub £2k but the sort of stuff that might interest us was a Broom European which went for around £18K and a small Merry Fisher with diesel which made £8K.
That seems very cheap to me even if boats were very tatty(which apparently they were not) and it was mainly trade buyers present.
The auctioneers where the same lot who had a sale at Ramsgate or Dover last year .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Out of interest, how do you get to know about boat auctions? There must be a lot of repo stuff around at the moment so where are these auctions advertised?

 

[jfm]

Out of interest, how do you get to know about boat auctions? There must be a lot of repo stuff around at the moment so where are these auctions advertised?

The proprietor of www.powertosail.com told me on Tuesday at Cannes boat show that he had just been given ~100 repos to sell by a big German bank. Probably not an exclusive agency but I don't know. All sorts of stuff, mobo and sail, mostly 30 foot to 75 foot. He is compiling a list.

 

[DAKA]

Had been being meaning to go to a boat auction held locally,but missed it,so this is third party info.
Spoke to a fellow club member who actually went along and bought a small boat and quizzed him about attendance and prices.
Several small Seamaster type motor boats went for sub £2k but the sort of stuff that might interest us was a Broom European which went for around £18K and a small Merry Fisher with diesel which made £8K.
That seems very cheap to me even if boats were very tatty(which apparently they were not) and it was mainly trade buyers present.
The auctioneers where the same lot who had a sale at Ramsgate or Dover last year .

would they let them go at that or would there be a reserve in place ?

Broom European has to be a good investment to hold for a year or two, plenty of inland users still in the market even for the strange mucky colour ones riddled with osmosis.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

would they let them go at that or would there be a reserve in place ?

Thats the issue. I've bid for a number of repo'd construction machines recently in online auctions for my business. I've been highest bidder on a number of lots but the owner (usually a finance co) often just decides that the bid isn't high enough so they just refuse to sell. Auctions are fine so long as it's clear that there's no reserve or a reserve is clearly stated up front. The trouble is that many finance cos are just using auctions to find the lowest market price before trying to sell at a higher price by other means. Finance cos have a statutory duty (at least in the UK) to sell repo'd goods at the highest price so they have to prove they've done everything they can to achieve the highest price. If this boat auction is a real selling auction, then it could be interesting but if its a market testing exercise before appointing brokers to sell the boats, then it would be a waste of time

 

[burgundyben]

I understand that the banks in Spain have started to off load repo'd property disregarding any previous notion of market value at a price that just recovers the debt.

I guess if repo boats dont make the finance co's reserve we'll see a bit of that too.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I understand that the banks in Spain have started to off load repo'd property disregarding any previous notion of market value at a price that just recovers the debt.

I guess if repo boats dont make the finance co's reserve we'll see a bit of that too.

Well thats the problem. Many people borrowed heavily in recent years and the amount owing on an asset often exceeds the current market value of that asset by a long way. Finance Cos would love to get a price for repo'd goods that 'recovers the debt' but more often than not, they don't get anywhere near that and then they chase after the original borrower for the difference. How interesting this boat auction is will be depend how desperate the finance co is to offload the boats or whether, as I say, they're just testing the market.

 

[burgundyben]

How interesting this boat auction is will be depend how desperate the finance co is to offload the boats or whether, as I say, they're just testing the market.

The difference between testing the market and desperate to offload is only a matter of time.

 

[westernman]

In France repossessed property (as in flats/houses), is put up for auction with a starting price equal to the debt to be recovered with no reserve. A single bid at or above the starting price will secure the property.

Often you will see very low starting prices. However, they all sell for something not so far off the market price. In most cases, the properties are very tatty, so they are not too interesting to the private buyer. In most cases they are bought by a company which rips the interiors out, redoes them completely and then resells for top price.

 

[DAKA]

The difference between testing the market and desperate to offload is only a matter of time.

Not really.

At the moment they can borrow 'monopoly money' almost for free, apart from storage costs they make a good investment, much more profitable than lending at the moment !

It doesnt make sense to offload an asset for 25%-40% of value .

It makes better sense to hold on to the assets until prices improve (may only be next spring) or hand them over to a European broker.

It also highlights the fact that they should allow defaulters to get behind more so the defaulter pays the storage until the assets value increase enough to make it worth while.

 

[prv]

In France repossessed property (as in flats/houses), is put up for auction with a starting price equal to the debt to be recovered with no reserve. A single bid at or above the starting price will secure the property.

Often you will see very low starting prices. However, they all sell for something not so far off the market price.

What happens if the debt still outstanding is higher than the market price?

Pete

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Not really.



It doesnt make sense to offload an asset for 25%-40% of value .

It makes better sense to hold on to the assets until prices improve (may only be next spring) or hand them over to a European broker.

.

Maybe not the case for boats but most assets only depreciate over time so hanging onto them and hoping for a better price next year is usually a forlorn hope

 

[DAKA]

Maybe not the case for boats but most assets only depreciate over time so hanging onto them and hoping for a better price next year is usually a forlorn hope

In general agreed but I get the impression houses/flats are being allowed to hang around one way or another but I'm no expert.

 

[sjoukje]

Out of interest, how do you get to know about boat auctions? There must be a lot of repo stuff around at the moment so where are these auctions advertised?

These were the people who organised the recent auction at Medway Bridge Marina. I know that some of the boats have been on brokerage, others have sat in the yard for many years. Not sure if any were actually repossessions.

http://www.wecansellanyboat.com/

No connection with the above company, my boat is moored here (missed the auction (un)fortunately !!)

 

[westernman]

What happens if the debt still outstanding is higher than the market price?

Pete

No idea. I think that situation is pretty rare in France due to the fact that traditionally the main residence has always been funded in part with a deposit which represents a significant percentage of its value. Also mortgage terms until recently where usually limited to 15 years which means that a significant part of capital is already paid back in the first 7 years compared to a more normal UK 25 year mortgage where after 7 years you still owe almost 100% of what you borrowed. All but two of the 13 properties my partner and I own have 15 year mortgages on them.

 

[Spi D]

These were the people who organised the recent auction at Medway Bridge Marina. I know that some of the boats have been on brokerage, others have sat in the yard for many years. Not sure if any were actually repossessions.

http://www.wecansellanyboat.com/

No connection with the above company, my boat is moored here (missed the auction (un)fortunately !!)

Very interesting site. Not updated though as they claim to do next auction on 3. September.... 5 days ago.

Preparing for their auctions seems hard if they do not publish.

 

[oldgit]

They seem to hold auctions about every six months or so.No high end just basic stuff.That Broom was in fairly good nick and had been on brokerage for some time.
My chum bought the dinghy and honda O/B for few hundred quid.The Seamaster went for around £1600.
The Merry Fisher appears to be the biggest bargain and about 10k under market,however once you add vat ? and buyers premium .

 

[burgundyben]

Not really.

At the moment they can borrow 'monopoly money' almost for free, apart from storage costs they make a good investment, much more profitable than lending at the moment !

It doesnt make sense to offload an asset for 25%-40% of value .

It makes better sense to hold on to the assets until prices improve (may only be next spring) or hand them over to a European broker.

It also highlights the fact that they should allow defaulters to get behind more so the defaulter pays the storage until the assets value increase enough to make it worth while.

I think you are in cloud cuckoo land there.

We have seen occasional market fluctuations mostly I think brought about by changing exchange rates but in a general sense motorboats are depreciating.

If left unused batteries will die and costs to get machinery up and running properly will increase, marine ageing of machinery waits for no man.

The model becomes out of date, something newer and nicer, more avant garde comes along, before you know it, totdays spangly new thing is an outdated liability.

'monopoly money' as you put it is not almost free, on reletively high value items over long perios its a significant cost.

Time will tell I say.

 

[gjgm]

The finance co is interested in recovering as much of its money as it can, and it is not interested in establishing a boat broking company!
However , it would be normal for them to have made some judgement on the value of the boat and possibilities of making a successful claim against the owner. To that end, it could well be that there is a reserve.. it doesnt help their books simply to give it away.
There is always another day to sell.