Harbour racing

[rog]

I am new to boating but being based in Chichester harbour, I have very occasionally found it most alarming to see a group of small sailing boats race across a very busy fairway in close formation, all seemingly relying solely on their rights of way under sail.

I do fully appreciate the collision regulations are there for everyone's benefit and before I am attacked on all sides for being a novice, inexperienced, incompetent or similar, the point I am making is that considering the detailed and numerous precautions we all take to be safe at sea, it does seem to me that racing across channels used by all sorts of other craft could be risky, at the very least, and that this level of risk would not normally be acceptable in many other situations.

Is this a fair and realistic assessment of the situation, is it foolish to mix cruising and racing in such very busy waters (which presumably are getting busier each year) and, if so, is it an unavoidable risk of boating, however slight.

 

[Guest]

New to boating you might be, Sir, but you write with much common sense and a fair knowledge of the rules. Rule 9 (b) covers the situation you describe. ...a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.
The race organisers are being very irresponsible. Only last Sunday a winter series of Laser races was delayed in Plymouth because of the arrival of HM Submarine Vanguard for refit and 3 tanker movements. I have no experience of Chichester, but it seems that there is little control of harbour movements there from what you write.

 

[Guest]

I kept a boat in Chichester Marina for 9 years. The dinghy fleets are terrifying, I once saw two of them tack onto a friends boat causing damage to all three. A number of times I raised it with the sailing clubs and the harbour master and got nowhere...I now keep my boat in Portsmouth Harbour and only have to worry about the irresponsible behaviours of one of the UK's largest racing/charter fleets. Good luck.

Pete

 

[BarryD]

Got to admit as a novice power boater it is not something I'm looking forward to. This year I'm out in my own boat with a small family on board, last year we witnessed all sorts of racing around the channel markers coming down from Chichester marina or Hayling Island - with a fleet of 10+ sailing boats all turning around you it's almost impossible to give way to all of them at once. No impact but a bit of mud ploughing was encountered.

Any dinghy sailers care to comment on this surely IMHO unsafe behaviour by their racing brethern?

Barry D

 

[rogerroger]

not to mention speed limits

I'm glad others find this a problem. Chichester is not the easiest of entrances and it's baffling why there sometimes appears to be 2 or 3 separate races just inside the entrance, off Hayling and with the nasty spit on the other side. They seem to have to race here when there's plenty of clear water further north up towards Emsworth.

Most of the skiffs are clearly breaking the 8 knot speed limit and no one seems to care.

Which rule takes precedent? power gives way to sail (I normally find myself motoring into the harbour) ? port / starboard ? or a boat navigating a defined channel having right of way. I will normally slow down or speed up to clear boats but on a busy day, altering course only tends to create more problems.

Generally, I do my best to keep clear of the little kids in the Optimists etc but glare at the big boys in the Lasers etc as you have no idea what they're doing ! (visibly holding a heavy winch handle works well too... only kidding!)

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[KevB]

Couldn't agree more.
Had my first season in Chichester Marina last year, it seemed as if the dinghy's were all over boats using the channel - like flies on dog do do's.
What I found amazing was the placement of their racing buoys/markers in the middle of the channel. How do they get away with it?
Maybe we should get a petition started and send it to the harbour master and the Chichester Conservancy?
This season I will be making more use of my horn!

 

[peterg]

Barry, if you think Chichester\'s bad, try...

the Hamble on a Bank Holiday with dozens of dinghys in the fairway and further up just outside the Moody marina!!

 

[KevB]

The Chichester Conservancy have a web page @ http://www.conservancy.co.uk

The site has a message board, if enough people make a post objecting to the racing in the channel maybe someone will take notice.

 

[Guest]

The other fightening thing we used to see was the dinghy racing marks close into east head anchorage....young kids swimming and in inflateables and in all that a racing fleet. The harbour master, conservancy, sailing clubs simply were not interested. The only class of boat that showed any consideration was the old deep keel one V class I think. At least in Portsmouth all I have to deal with is the ignorance shown by the corporate charter fleets from Sunsail. I hasten to add that the Sunsail boats that have an instructor on are OK

Pete

 

[Viking]

Chichester as an historical problem that both Hayling Island and Chichester Yacht Clubs have been their along time, before the heavy 'boat' traffic seen today.
Chichester YC dinghy racing area is beyond the channel into the marina. But of course the dinghies have to cross the marina channel to get between the clubhouse and the racing area. All racing is and has to be observed and monitored from the club house by the race officers. All CYC sailors and racing visitors are reminded to observe the channel and to cross it as quickly as possible. There also is a fast safety boat on duty at all races to assist should there be a problem.
CYC as three section Dinghy, Yacht and Motor. So the club is more then awhere of the problems of the channel and the regs.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Viking on Wed Feb 6 11:05:07 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[KevB]

Sorry Viking my post wasn't clear. I have never had a problem with the CYC dinghy's around the marina entrance. They try and keep out of the way and are polite.
I was refering to the area's between Thorney Island and Itchenor - East head and Hayling Island. This is where they seem to put the racing buoys in the most awkward and dangerous positions.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by KevB on Wed Feb 6 11:16:11 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[DanTribe]

A friend who sails a heavy, not very nimble ferro ketch always flys code flag D[keep clear manouvring with difficulty]when near racing fleets. He believes that this will protect him legally in the event of collision.
Bear in mind that young people with quick reactions in small dinghies can approach very closely before they think that avoidance is necessary.We who sail plodding cruisers are often better advised to maintain a course and let them go round us. I'm not advocating ploughing through a championship start line, just common sense.

 

[Guest]

I have a yacht in Chichester marina and I have also raced my Dayboat at CYC family week. I have never seen racing marks put in the fairway. It amazes me that people think it reasonable to complain so bitterly about dinghy racing. Boats with engines can stop and hold their course/position. If they can't then they ought not to be out causing chaos. I have seen people in the marina running into moored boats for Gods sake!

 

[robp]

Having spent quite a few years dodging our way through the dinghy fleets in Chi Harbour, I find that it really sharpens me up for what else might lie ahead. I've had safety boats come up and apologise for certain impossible situations. As usual it's down to the individuals to be reasonable and up to the clubs to educate sense not prejudice.

I did have a problem though with the pr-t, who with his family on board last season, deliberately rammed my kid's towed dingy!

 

[skiffsailor]

From the Dinghy Racers!!!

Believe it or not, there is a skiff racer amongst you yachties!

I race regularly from Hayling Island SC in a variety of boats and have for a number of years. And I know exactly what you are talking about because there are close calls every Sunday morning. However there are some fors and againsts in this discussion, so please hear me out and see what you think to my suggestions.

I have to say, I am constantly surprised at the number of cruising yachts (and power boats) who do not seem to have any idea whether they should hold their course, do not know (or care) whether they are on Starboard, to windward or to leeward, and consequently don't anticipate the movements and actions of the dinghies around them. True, we dinghies are a nimble lot and will usually stay out of the way - however when we only get two races of one hour each it's a lot to ask to have one of them ruined by having to get out of the way of a cruiser. I would ask that you ensure your most experienced helm is steering for the short time it takes to pass the dinghy fleet. Motoring for this short stretch may also be less stressful.

With reference to the point about why we often have our courses in the channel - in my experience this is only when LW is between 0800 and 1200 on a Sunday morning, and because our draught is nearly five feet and believe me, there's not much water outside the channel near LW - I have carved the mud more times than most. And the Sailing Club does make a large effort to stay out of the channel, to the extent that often our marks aren't even placed in enough water! My suggestion to you is to check the tide times - if you know it's going to be near LW and between 1000 and 1400 on a Sunday (Sat also in summer), be vigilant, be prepared to slow down or even stop for a few moments. Alternatively, try calling the club on the VHF.

Dinghy sailing has changed a lot over the past five years with the result that there are more boats, and they are mostly faster. Hayling Island has attracted these sorts of boats because of the excellent sailing waters both inside and outside Chi harbour. It's made sailing much more accessible and fun to many more people, and like it or not, dinghy racing and Hayling Island SC is here to stay, and probably grow. Unfortunately that is putting pressure on certain parts of popular water (try going for a quiet cruise up the Hamble river at 1000 on a Sun morning!!) - we all have to live with one another. I don't know of any dinghy racer who has deliberately antagonised a yacht, and I would hope that the converse is the same.

One day, I will sell the dinghy and get a cruiser!

 

[rogerroger]

Re: From the Dinghy Racers!!!

Hi Skiffy!

Very interesting to hear you're side of the story!

I don't think anyone here is apportioning blame, there are always 2 sides to the story as you point out. I'm sure people here will be surprised to hear you draw 5 feet ! I know I am. (mind you, I'm sure it's easier for you to pull up your centre board than it is to re-float a yacht grounded on East Head!)

I reckon there's genuine confusion though, not ignorance. I think it's a classic grey area of the Rules of the Road. Is the entrance a defined channel or not? If so then dinghies are breaking the rules by impeding the vessels using it if they cause them to alter course. If it isn't, then yes, the usual rules apply.

For you it's annoying having some fart in a cruiser in your way. But for the cruiser seeing 2 nutters on a Laser 5000 screaming towards you it's a daunting experience as you have no idea of their intentions.

But - I'm sure you guys are doing over 8 knots a lot of the time which is breaking the harbour rules ;-)

Oh, and just to prove I have absolutley nothing against dinghy sailors (used to have a Laser myself) - another real pain in the **** in Chi is other yachts or motor cruisers sailing down the left side of the channel !!



Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[bedouin]

Re: From the Dinghy Racers!!!

Good to hear the other side of the story. Does your club insist that people have a good understanding of Colregs before allowing them to participate in a race? If not why not?

In this case, as in many others, the right and wrong are not black and white. My interpretation is that I am navigating in a narrow channel and so rule 9 applies. This states

"A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel of fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. "

This means that a dinghy sailor must not cross the channel if that would cause me to have to alter course or speed. The other side to that is that I must "maintain course and speed", so for me to alter course to avoid a racing dinghy is also a violation of Colregs. That is what the rules say.

In those situations Port/Starboard, Sail/Power and Windward/Leeward don't enter into it. Nor does "anticipating the movements of the dinghy" - the dinghy is required not to impede the passage of the yacht (and similarly the yacht is required not to change course/speed).

You may regard that as "a lot to ask" - I suggest you take that up with IMO who make the rules.

In reality of course we all have to share the same water; and so a bit of give-and-take is required. Whenever possible I will alter course so as to avoid groups of racing dinghys, but it is not always easy to do - particularly if a whole fleet is close together crossing the main channel.

 

[rogerroger]

Re: From the Dinghy Racers!!!

I agree with you... BUT...

where the channel bends to starboard (between E Head and the S Cardinal off Hayling) it's actually quite wide and this is where they tend to race. You've also only got the green can (Winner ?) marks to starboard so is it really defined as a channel? if so, by what criteria?

If you chose to sail in shallow water off Ryde Sands for example, would you then consider yourself constrained by draft and therefore the stand on vessel in the majority of cases ?


keeps me guessing...



Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[skiffsailor]

Re: From the Dinghy Racers!!!

Agree with your points. Re: whether it's a channel or not - we will always be watching out for yachts crossign our course and will usually make sure our course keeps us well away (a 35ft yacht has a huge windshadow anyway, not fun when you're both on the wire!). It's usually those times when things aren't going well and all of a sudden you realise you're on collision course... ie it's give and take, like it is in all busy traffic situations.

Re: draught - thats a L5000 or RS800. An 18ft skiff is more - however it'll be rare to have one of these out n the harbour as it's acknowledged as not big enough for them. If you ever see a L5000 etc hitting the bottom you'll realise what a nightmare it is - often a complete pitchpole, which hopefully is entertaining to all those watching. Same coming in over the bar - scary.

Re: speed - good point. Not sure what the rules are here, presume there's some exclusion for boats taking part in a race. I'm sure HISC or the conservancy would tell you. But certainly seen more than one power boat exceeding the limits.

Someone mentioned children swimming off East Head. Not exactly the safest place to bathe IMHO. The beach shelves rapidly here and there is often a tidal advantage to coming close in - however I've never seen a racing dinghy THAT close to the beach! Either the kids are way out of their depth or the dinghy sailors are about to have a picnic!!

 

[rogerroger]

Re: From the Dinghy Racers!!!

Must admit - would rather be out there in my boat dodging skiffs than sat here in London...

Anyway - I don't think there are any exemptions to the harbour speed limit and yes, power boats break it as well.

Totally agree with you about swimming at East Head - on a good spring tide you could easily find your child off on a trip to Itchenor pretty quick! Not only is the tide strong there, there are really strange eddies that I can't work out, quite often you get anchored boats pointing East even though the tide is coming in!

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk