Hanks or furler? That is the question...

[NealB]

I am currently getting quotations for new sails for our 1979 Comanche catamaran.

Now, please don't laugh too loudly, but we're still using the original sails, which are: mainsail plus hank-on 150% genoa and hank-on no.1 jib.

I don't really find the hanked foresails too much hassle (for either handling or stowage), and quite like having the appropriately sized sail for the conditions.

I have, of course, also used roller reefing systems, too, and am not blind to their advantages.

So whilst I'm splashing the money around, should I also update and buy a furler? If so, would 'one size fit all conditions' (ie only one foresail), or would I want a furler AND two foresails?

I would be interested in any views from this esteemed forum.

Ta!

 

[scottie]

Not a simple answer
The advantage of dropping a fore sail hanked on is not to be overlooked if sailing short handed

We sail with a 140% genny and a 95% self tacker which entails changing when racing in lighter winds although the larger sail is ok up to 18kn it is too much when cruising but we can use it with a couple of rolls in but its not really set properly
The self tacker is bullet proof which means its a heavy lump to work with especially as it is battened This means it's a 2-3 man job to change so once it's on it's on for the day usually.

The advantage of furling the foresail is self explanitary

Worst option would be a non furling foil unless racing with plenty of bodies is the norm but if you still have the original sails then I doubt that this is where you are.

Other option is slightly bigger working jib with cruising shoot!

 

[fergie_mac66]

we have a double groove furler and have 2 jibs one smaller heavier but they can both go up together to go downwind (dropping the main ). we have used the heavier one and it has a night time advantage as it sets well and we can see under it

 

[Twister_Ken]

If you've been happily hanked for many years, why mess with another system?

 

[Seajet]

On my 22' 7/8ths rig boat I am a great fan of seperate hanked foresails, to give the best performance particularly upwind, less windage than a furled sail in gales, other sails available if one gets torn etc and one learns tricks like a downhaul and part hoisting the sail, as an answer to the tactical advantages of a rolled sail being ready to set or reef.

I've been on several boats where the roller jammed ( yes we were keeping tension on the line ) which caused varying degrees of a pain in the transom.

When I had a masthead rigged 30' cruiser racer, the foresails were relatively huge and heavy to tote to and fro, I would have gone for a good roller system if I'd kept that boat.

 

[YachtAllegro]

Having persuaded myself for years that I liked the hank on sails which were on our boat when we bought her 10 years ago - on the grounds of having the right weight sail set rather than the "one size fits all" of a furling genoa - I replaced the sails this winter and fitted roller furling on the genoa and a stackpack / lazyjack system on the main. And I'm just loving the easy changes of sail size that we can make. Easier reefing makes it less tempting to hang on and hope the wind won't get up any more. And the main drops neatly away and rises up without me needing to prance around on the cabin roof with sail-ties. So, clearly it is a matter of personal preference, and sailing style, but I'm one person who's very pleased to have made the change - these things are popular for a reason!

Cheers
Patrick

 

[[10753]]

I'm still using hanked on sails too. There are times when I'm envious of furling gear and other times when I'm really happy I have hanked on sails. Lighter canvas for light airs, heavier canvas for the strong breezes etc. Always got spare canvas etc.

I've also heard about loss of performance when furled caused by loss of shape etc. but I'm no expert on how significant this is. Likewise I guess the weight of the cloth is heavier than a hanked genoa possibly impacting light air performance.

Again, I am no expert on furling gear but last Saturday (F5/6) there seemed to be a number of boats having trouble with reefing them and some when completely furled still had a bag of sail flapping halfway up the forestay.

If I was changing boat and it came with furling gear then I'd probably join the masses but if it didn't I'd happily stick with hanked on.

The other advantage with hanked on sails is the second hand market seems to be flooded. As people switch to furling this releases a lot of unwanted/nonconvertible to furling hanked canvas.

Now if I were considering new I'd be in the same dilemma as you ! However, swapping sails can be as much fun as it can be a pain !

 

[Seajet]

Kneeling on the foredeck being splashed by spray, hearing the bow wave below you, being bounced off one's knees by waves, a sail tie in ones' teeth while swapping sails; that's what it's all about, I feel sorry for people with furlers who haven't experienced this, I usually get newcomers to sailing to come and sit on the foredeck with the autohelm going.

 

[Wansworth]

Came across a westerly centuar with a winch specially for the jib furling line and my mate with a nic 32 has a real pull when he has to reef the genoa,I am thinking seriously of the removeable inner forestay with a hanked jib after the genoa is furled away,not reefed.

 

[NealB]

Kneeling on the foredeck being splashed by spray, hearing the bow wave below you, being bounced off one's knees by waves, a sail tie in ones' teeth while swapping sails; that's what it's all about,

Yes...I can relate to that!

 

[scottie]

Yes modern step through pulpits are not same for sitting in front of the forestay fidling with your hanks getting your bum wet in relative safety!

 

[NealB]

Yes modern step through pulpits are not same for sitting in front of the forestay fidling with your hanks getting your bum wet in relative safety!

Aha... but our pulpit is about 14 feet wide! Not quite as cosy to jam yourself into.

 

[NealB]

One of the things that appeals about hanks, is that I could get three separate foresails, for pretty much the same money as one furling sail + the furling gear.

 

[xyachtdave]

We have a below deck furler on our boat in the anchor locker. To be honest I'm thinking about getting rid of it for a tuff luff and decent prefeeder.

The friction caused by the furling line going down into the anchor locker and through a couple of blocks to the furling drum, means furling needs to be done downwind blanking the genoa with the main. Forget letting the sheet fly and hauling a bit of canvass in.

With a sail already up you are tempted to leave it rather than select an appropriate sized one when setting off.

The reason your sail has lasted so long is probably because it has not been left outside year in year out on a furler.....

 

[bedouin]

It is possible to have furling gear and still change your sails you know

With that in mind the only real disadvantages of roller over hank is weight, initial cost and probably a loss in maximum luff length and so a loss in maximum sail area.

For short-handed sailing I wouldn't be without it.

 

[lustyd]

The difference between hanks and furler is very minimal - you'd still need different sails with a furler since there is no reefing mechanism, and I suspect that the new sail would be identical aside from the hanks being attached.

A roller reefing head sail on the other hand will want a different kind of sail attachment altogether and won't need a wire luff. This has the advantage that you can roll a little bit away at a time.

Of course you could also opt for something like a tuff luff which has the same luff groove as roller reefing but with interchangeable sails and no hanks. This is a plastic extrusion which fits onto your forestay.

Sorry to widen the options but all this talk of furling gear being reefed was just confusing.

 

[oldbilbo]

I am currently getting quotations for new sails for our 1979 Comanche catamaran.

Now, please don't laugh too loudly, but we're still using the original sails, which are: mainsail plus hank-on 150% genoa and hank-on no.1 jib.

I don't really find the hanked foresails too much hassle (for either handling or stowage), and quite like having the appropriately sized sail for the conditions.

I have, of course, also used roller reefing systems, too, and am not blind to their advantages.

So whilst I'm splashing the money around, should I also update and buy a furler? If so, would 'one size fit all conditions' (ie only one foresail), or would I want a furler AND two foresails?

I would be interested in any views from this esteemed forum.

Ta!

With a good understanding of the benefits of a catamaran AND the different mindset needed re sail area and reefing/reducing area, I'd be tempted to stay with a hanked-on genoa and ensure I have enough of the necessary smaller sizes. A removable inner stay is desirable for setting a much smaller headsail in gusty weather, though fitting a lower eyebolt for the stay in the right place may cause some head-scratching.

Should the convenience of roller furling of the bigger headsail seduce, then certainly I'd also fit an inner stay with a twin-groove foil/prefeeder so that a smaller headsail ( No2, No3 ? ) can be made ready for use - as could a proper storm jib. That would also facilitate setting two jibs 'wing-on-wing' for trouble-free downwind work.

So many options....

 

[onenyala]

Kneeling on the foredeck being splashed by spray, hearing the bow wave below you, being bounced off one's knees by waves, a sail tie in ones' teeth while swapping sails; that's what it's all about, I feel sorry for people with furlers who haven't experienced this, I usually get newcomers to sailing to come and sit on the foredeck with the autohelm going.

Great when you are singlehanding and the autohelm goes walkabout due to lack of steerage way and the bow is coming back and forth through the wind. Meanwhile you are trying to stuff the old sail in the bag etc....
I would have given up sailing years ago if I still had hanked on sails !

 

[stav]

Not sure if responses from mono sailors suit a catamaran as they work differently?

But on my last boat (Nic36) I had a roller with about 130% genoa and a light No1 and a no3 blade. Initially the no3 fitted the roller but changing to the No3 in 30knts of wind singled handed was a real pig and twice I torn a third of the luff out of the sail. In the end I changed this so that the detachable stay was almost at the top of the mast and just clear of the roller drum. The no1 and no3 had piston hanks added and this was so much easier to work.

Twice doing a passage on my old Nic from Plymouth to Falmouth in to a F6 one trip was with 4 or 5 rolls and a baggy sail= more heal and less close winded. Similiar passage the following year with the No3 set and much more comfortable and a bit quicker.


The current boat (westerly conway) does not have a roller reefer and I can not afford one but with piston hanks it is so easy to drop the sail also being a heavy boat more stable and I do bear away and run off for the few minutes it takes to drop the sail, if I can or round up so it drops on to the deck. So whilst I am no racer I do enjoy having the correct sail up and making the most of my boat in a wider range of wind speeds.
If I could afford a roller AND a detable stay with a light sail, heavy sail and storm jib that would be my choice by a long way.

Have fun adding these bits, how lovely.

 

[Lakesailor]

Sorry to widen the options but all this talk of furling gear being reefed was just confusing.

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling the term furling gear was being used generically to include roller reefing gear.
It's only smaller boat sailors who know the difference

I've had hanks, furler and reefing gear and wouldn't suggest hanks for single handing. The problems people get with furling gear is often down to the way it's set up and used.

The Barton furling gear I had on my last boat was great.
Since I sold the boat I've sailed it twice and each time I had to sort out the furling gear when setting the sail. You do need a bit of mechanical sympathy to get the most benefit from it.