Handling tricks with a wheel?

[Stemar]

I have a long keeler. About 17 tons with full tanks and all the cruising gear. Fixed 22 inch prop. Motorsailer with lots of windage.

As to your going astern advice - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

First Mate is I/C steering. Her advice would be loads of fenders and pray.

Pray hard........................

Try this bit of advice from the owner of a Warrior: "Let her do what she wants and pretend you meant it" My Snapdragon could always be relied on to kick the stern hard to port then put it into the wind. Until I relied on this to get out of an awkward spot, whereupon she did the exact opposite. (will I get into trouble for saying this is why boats are always shes?)

 

[Laysula]

We usually reverse into our berth. My wife like to turn the boat around outside the marina where there is plenty of room and then stand infront of the wheel and just drive her into the berth.

 

[stav]

When coming alongside in tricky conditions or with the kids, I have some light rope (10 or 12mm 3 strand) which is easier and hence quicker to handle. Then change over to the big guns 16mm stuff once moored. Though I do use the bigger stuff when springing her out etc. Would recommend giving using the engine and a single line ago/practise in light weather. Have fun.

 

[LadyInBed]

Its just like driving a car, simples.

When I had a boat with a tiller and I asked my wife to helm, we went in circles!
When I got a boat with a wheel it then became easy for her to steer and standing in front of the wheel to go astern was still the same as driving a car.
Peace and tranquility then returned.

 

[[70521]]

When I had a boat with a tiller and I asked my wife to helm, we went in circles!
When I got a boat with a wheel it then became easy for her to steer and standing in front of the wheel to go astern was still the same as driving a car.
Peace and tranquility then returned.

Exactly, it is what most people are used to.

 

[matt1]

I made a similar transition last year. What instrumentation do you have? As well as tape marks on the wheels I found it useful to set the chart plotter to show rudder angle (essentially to replicate a tiller view). The other thing I found was that I had to go a lot faster into berths than on the 31’ else windage took over. Very disconcerting at first! My previous boat handling was impeccable but am still get the hang of it in this one. Don’t under estimate the sail drive lag either

 

[dunedin]

. The other thing I found was that I had to go a lot faster into berths than on the 31’ else windage took over.

Take care using more speed. It is only a matter of time before you go into a berth at speed then find the gear linkage, or more likely the cable, has parted and you can’t get reverse/forward to stop. It will happen one day.
Happened to me twice so far - once on a charter boat and once on my own boat just as heading into Crinan Canal sealock ! (in spite of being recently checked). And on a third trip I was skippering one Sunsail boat when the other one had this break - and they ended up with the bow of the 36 foot boat riding right up onto the pontoon :-(

As they say, there is no parking scrape that can’t be made much worse by a bit of extra speed.
It’s always a joy watching the real experts make it look so simple doing everything nice and gently.

 

[Ademist]

Prepare for the worst. Fender off both sides. If the wind and tide make a hash of it for you and you are about to land on the neighbouring boat, stop. Don’t try to reverse out, but just let lay alongside It. You can then put lines across and rope yourself across the gap.

If you try to reverse out, when close to the neighbouring boat, it can go wrong!

 

[MagicalArmchair]

I made a similar transition last year. What instrumentation do you have? As well as tape marks on the wheels I found it useful to set the chart plotter to show rudder angle (essentially to replicate a tiller view). The other thing I found was that I had to go a lot faster into berths than on the 31’ else windage took over. Very disconcerting at first! My previous boat handling was impeccable but am still get the hang of it in this one. Don’t under estimate the sail drive lag either

On her autopilot she has a rudder angle display, your advice helped me look for it and find it thank you.

This weekend, we made our exit: The first ever maneuvering of Mirage to go sailing, with the three kids. The (gentle) breeze was blowing us off the finger into the boat next to us, and also ahead. My cunning plan was to leave the red spring attached and chug gently backwards against it, leaving me free to take off the green lines, and then thread that line through last of all. What could go wrong? A pro exit would surely be achieved:

The boat balanced well slightly astern (or so I thought), and I took the other ropes, marked in green above, off. When I released the bow line, I realised she wasn't quite as balanced as I would have liked and the wind started gently taking the bow around causing me to flap, and start to rush (rather than what I should have done, which was go and adjust the helm).

I dashed back and released the other lines, telling the boy to pull through the line on the midships cleat (the red one) as I made my way to the wheel. I gave it a bit of welly to get some steering way in astern to bring it away from the boat next to us, this was successful... only to get checked just before the bow exited the pontoon - the line had got stuck around the cleat on the pontoon! The bow swung into the (luckily, fendered, thank you MDL Cobbs Quay for having this feature at the end of all your fingers) end of the pontoon and made an entertaining and exciting crash "Daddy! You crashed the boat!", yes boy, yes I did.

I, somewhat comically, dashed forwards, tripping over a few times as I did, and released the line from the deck and threw it back onto the finger, and we reversed out as the bow was likely to blow off (the advice about standing the otherside of the wheel here being of great, great use). We exited, blood pressure slightly higher, but with no marks, and no insurance claims coming to bear .

I put some brown tape on the wheel to mark where the central position was and this helped the children steer as much as me. Helmsman here pointing the tape out:

We had a cracking few hours of sailing, and coming back into the berth, I bugged out the first time as I got the angle wrong (there isn't a lot of space between the boat next to me and the finger), so turned the boat 360 degrees and went around for another go. This all went very well, with the first mate jumping off and securing the bowline to the middle cleat on the pontoon to stop us blowing forwards, and then I stepped off with the sternline. A bit less dramatic than the exit... it almost looked like we knew what we were doing...

My lessons learnt from the above:

• The bow didn't blow of as fast as I expected. I had more time than I perceived (and a million fenders on the side that would have connected with the other boat anyway). I should have taken my time to make sure that other line was off, rather than rushing back to the cockpit and gunning her astern.
• Make sure the lines you think are slack, really are, and that the boat does what you expect when you take them off. If I would have got the boat truly balance on one line, I would have felt less pressure to rush.

We had a lovely day, thank you for all your advice and taking the time to give it, truly invaluable stuff.

 

[Catalina36]

One difference might be rudder stops limiting movement. Rightly or wrongly my previous Jaguar 27 had none and in close quarters the tiller/rudder could be put hard over to a very tight angle in an instant to get out of trouble. The current boat has a wheel and a Raymarine autopilot on a tiller quadrant and rudder stops limit the travel to 35 degrees in either direction since that's the extent of the ram's travel. That combined with the extra time taken to turn the wheel rather than shove a tiller make for slower response.

 

[scottie]

Looking at your photo reminds me how much easier it is to coach learners when sitting on the quarter as it’s right beside but out their way

 

[Clancy Moped]

When I marked the wheel I did it with a few turns of string tied with a noose knot at 12 o'clock. You can then feel where you are going without looking down, which is especially handy when things get hairy and you need eyes in the back of your head.

 

[thinwater]

If you were teaching a child to park a car there are two things I'm certain you would do:

• Blocked practice. You find and empty lot and focus on only the parking, over and over. You don't go and drive for 10 miles before the next attempt. Between each trial you do a simple debrief, identifying just one or two things that could be done differently or better. Sailors hate docking, so they try to avoid doing it more than once per day, and only once exvery 2-3 weeks when they sail. No wonder it takes so long to get it down. Blocked practices, focusing ONLY on docking.
• Safe area. It doesn't have to be your slip. Find a safe area where you can practice without fear of what happens when you miss the approach. If all that is available is a bulkhead, even that can be educational, if you imagine the same limits on you aproach (imagine virtual traffic cones and do the same approach).

It's not that hard, you just need the time and space to break it down.

 

[Jmc1764]

I have lovely wood rimmed wheel on the Albin Singoalla ( like a Vega only bigger) the masterful design means the the prop is behind the rudder. this makes for interesting if near impossible manoeuvring in marina's. it simply won't turn at slow speeds. you have to give it a good bit of thrust from the engine to get her moving then she will turn. this makes for scary times with wind and current pushing in different directions. I found that if your fearful its going to get the better of you. but if you just go for it then it seems to all come together. I can't imagine what it would be like with a tiller !

 

[MagicalArmchair]

If you were teaching a child to park a car there are two things I'm certain you would do:

• Blocked practice. You find and empty lot and focus on only the parking, over and over. You don't go and drive for 10 miles before the next attempt. Between each trial you do a simple debrief, identifying just one or two things that could be done differently or better. Sailors hate docking, so they try to avoid doing it more than once per day, and only once exvery 2-3 weeks when they sail. No wonder it takes so long to get it down. Blocked practices, focusing ONLY on docking.
• Safe area. It doesn't have to be your slip. Find a safe area where you can practice without fear of what happens when you miss the approach. If all that is available is a bulkhead, even that can be educational, if you imagine the same limits on you aproach (imagine virtual traffic cones and do the same approach).

It's not that hard, you just need the time and space to break it down.

Really good advice, and something I never did with my old boat, meaning that even after five years of ownership I wasn't fear free at handling her in tight berths in complicated conditions. After 12 years I was confident. With a new boat, most of the barriers are psychological, and this kind of practise is something we are going to do in some double empty berths in the marina. We'll go in and out, forwards and backwards, up and down fingers, single handed and with assistance from the first mate. The challenge is time with three kids on board, a drive down, and not being allowed to stay on board overnight, as well as wanting to actually go for a sail. Hmm, hopefully they will let us stay on board soon (as many already are).

I have lovely wood rimmed wheel on the Albin Singoalla ( like a Vega only bigger) the masterful design means the the prop is behind the rudder. this makes for interesting if near impossible manoeuvring in marina's. it simply won't turn at slow speeds. you have to give it a good bit of thrust from the engine to get her moving then she will turn. this makes for scary times with wind and current pushing in different directions. I found that if your fearful its going to get the better of you. but if you just go for it then it seems to all come together. I can't imagine what it would be like with a tiller !

I just took a look in plan of your Albin, gosh, what were they thinking?? That will take some proper practise to maneuver. A lovely boat, and will be tough as old nails if she was built anything like my old Albin Ballad.

Looking at your photo reminds me how much easier it is to coach learners when sitting on the quarter as it’s right beside but out their way

And yes, when they are on the helm, my usual position is here:

 

[Bobc]

On her autopilot she has a rudder angle display, your advice helped me look for it and find it thank you.

This weekend, we made our exit: The first ever maneuvering of Mirage to go sailing, with the three kids. The (gentle) breeze was blowing us off the finger into the boat next to us, and also ahead. My cunning plan was to leave the red spring attached and chug gently backwards against it, leaving me free to take off the green lines, and then thread that line through last of all. What could go wrong? A pro exit would surely be achieved:

The boat balanced well slightly astern (or so I thought), and I took the other ropes, marked in green above, off. When I released the bow line, I realised she wasn't quite as balanced as I would have liked and the wind started gently taking the bow around causing me to flap, and start to rush (rather than what I should have done, which was go and adjust the helm).

I dashed back and released the other lines, telling the boy to pull through the line on the midships cleat (the red one) as I made my way to the wheel. I gave it a bit of welly to get some steering way in astern to bring it away from the boat next to us, this was successful... only to get checked just before the bow exited the pontoon - the line had got stuck around the cleat on the pontoon! The bow swung into the (luckily, fendered, thank you MDL Cobbs Quay for having this feature at the end of all your fingers) end of the pontoon and made an entertaining and exciting crash "Daddy! You crashed the boat!", yes boy, yes I did.

I, somewhat comically, dashed forwards, tripping over a few times as I did, and released the line from the deck and threw it back onto the finger, and we reversed out as the bow was likely to blow off (the advice about standing the otherside of the wheel here being of great, great use). We exited, blood pressure slightly higher, but with no marks, and no insurance claims coming to bear .

I put some brown tape on the wheel to mark where the central position was and this helped the children steer as much as me. Helmsman here pointing the tape out:

We had a cracking few hours of sailing, and coming back into the berth, I bugged out the first time as I got the angle wrong (there isn't a lot of space between the boat next to me and the finger), so turned the boat 360 degrees and went around for another go. This all went very well, with the first mate jumping off and securing the bowline to the middle cleat on the pontoon to stop us blowing forwards, and then I stepped off with the sternline. A bit less dramatic than the exit... it almost looked like we knew what we were doing...

My lessons learnt from the above:

• The bow didn't blow of as fast as I expected. I had more time than I perceived (and a million fenders on the side that would have connected with the other boat anyway). I should have taken my time to make sure that other line was off, rather than rushing back to the cockpit and gunning her astern.
• Make sure the lines you think are slack, really are, and that the boat does what you expect when you take them off. If I would have got the boat truly balance on one line, I would have felt less pressure to rush.

We had a lovely day, thank you for all your advice and taking the time to give it, truly invaluable stuff.

Excellent.

So next time, don't panic (the boat is not going to suddenly leap out of the water). You now know how predictable and manouverable your boat is. Let the wind help you (had you just untied everything and put the boat in reverse, it would have all been fine). Don't try to overthink things. Have fun, it's a cracking boat you've got there.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I have lovely wood rimmed wheel on the Albin Singoalla ( like a Vega only bigger) the masterful design means the the prop is behind the rudder. this makes for interesting if near impossible manoeuvring in marina's. it simply won't turn at slow speeds. you have to give it a good bit of thrust from the engine to get her moving then she will turn. this makes for scary times with wind and current pushing in different directions. I found that if your fearful its going to get the better of you. but if you just go for it then it seems to all come together. I can't imagine what it would be like with a tiller !

With a rudder/prop configuration like yours I would manoeuvre in reverse in marinas.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

On her autopilot she has a rudder angle display, your advice helped me look for it and find it thank you.

This weekend, we made our exit: The first ever maneuvering of Mirage to go sailing, with the three kids. The (gentle) breeze was blowing us off the finger into the boat next to us, and also ahead. My cunning plan was to leave the red spring attached and chug gently backwards against it, leaving me free to take off the green lines, and then thread that line through last of all. What could go wrong? A pro exit would surely be achieved:

The boat balanced well slightly astern (or so I thought), and I took the other ropes, marked in green above, off. When I released the bow line, I realised she wasn't quite as balanced as I would have liked and the wind started gently taking the bow around causing me to flap, and start to rush (rather than what I should have done, which was go and adjust the helm).

I dashed back and released the other lines, telling the boy to pull through the line on the midships cleat (the red one) as I made my way to the wheel. I gave it a bit of welly to get some steering way in astern to bring it away from the boat next to us, this was successful... only to get checked just before the bow exited the pontoon - the line had got stuck around the cleat on the pontoon! The bow swung into the (luckily, fendered, thank you MDL Cobbs Quay for having this feature at the end of all your fingers) end of the pontoon and made an entertaining and exciting crash "Daddy! You crashed the boat!", yes boy, yes I did.

I, somewhat comically, dashed forwards, tripping over a few times as I did, and released the line from the deck and threw it back onto the finger, and we reversed out as the bow was likely to blow off (the advice about standing the otherside of the wheel here being of great, great use). We exited, blood pressure slightly higher, but with no marks, and no insurance claims coming to bear .

I put some brown tape on the wheel to mark where the central position was and this helped the children steer as much as me. Helmsman here pointing the tape out:

We had a cracking few hours of sailing, and coming back into the berth, I bugged out the first time as I got the angle wrong (there isn't a lot of space between the boat next to me and the finger), so turned the boat 360 degrees and went around for another go. This all went very well, with the first mate jumping off and securing the bowline to the middle cleat on the pontoon to stop us blowing forwards, and then I stepped off with the sternline. A bit less dramatic than the exit... it almost looked like we knew what we were doing...

My lessons learnt from the above:

• The bow didn't blow of as fast as I expected. I had more time than I perceived (and a million fenders on the side that would have connected with the other boat anyway). I should have taken my time to make sure that other line was off, rather than rushing back to the cockpit and gunning her astern.
• Make sure the lines you think are slack, really are, and that the boat does what you expect when you take them off. If I would have got the boat truly balance on one line, I would have felt less pressure to rush.

We had a lovely day, thank you for all your advice and taking the time to give it, truly invaluable stuff.

In that situation, and with no tidal component, first having re-rigged the bow and stern lines as slip lines, the sensible thing would have been to drop the springs, then slip the stern line then the bow line allowing the boat to just drift clear of the pontoon, then reverse out smartly.
If the wind were stronger, and more likely to blow the bow into the neighbouring boat, I would have removed the springs, re-rigged the bow and stern lines as slip lines, then run a spring, rigged as a slip line, from the bow to the middle cleat on the pontoon. To get under way I would then have slipped, in succession, the stern line and the bow line, then reversed, keeping straight, with someone keeping tension on the bow spring, to keep the bow from blowing off, releasing it when almost at the end of the pontoon (and retrieving it quickly).

 

[Laminar Flow]

Its just like driving a car, simples.

Yes, that is exactly what I had to tell myself. After some twenty years of steering by tiller using a wheel was not intuitive.
My wife, even after a thirty year hiatus from sailing, initially struggled through the same genetic imprint.

 

[johnalison]

The first wheel I operated was on a Broads cruiser circa 1952. I was told that the main thing is that it's not like a car. For a start, it's not the front that moves but the stern (to mix my terms), and there is a delay before anything happens. For me, there has never been a problem, so I am not the person to teach anyone, so all I can suggest is to take it steadily and hope that it falls into place. Remember that there is no manoeuvre that can't be made more expensive by using more throttle.