Handheld computers

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FergusM

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I don't know much about these, but I have heard of one called an iPaq.

1. Can they be used to send/receive e-mails, and, if so, does it need a mobile phone?
Last summer, when I was sailing in the Baltic, I was charged a fortune for mobile calls home, and even more to receive calls from home. E-mails might be cheaper.

2. Can they run programs for astro and tides?

3. Can you actually use them for serious writing, or do you really need a laptop for that?

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ipaqs can do anything depending on the model and the sleeves thast you can buy that do different things, to get email you use a phone one way or tother. so you will still have a phone bill to pay. i used a 3630 coupled to a gps garmin 12 with oziexplorer software and scanned in charts on a flotilla hol in greece, they come with word and excel and they are useable to write docs although a bit fidly till you get used to the styulus

stu

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
 
Re: Bleeding edge

Best wait for the new bread of always connected (gprs) pocket-pc-phones to mature a bit further.

The iPaq range is about to be extended with a new model that incorporates a GSM mobile phone that can also support the always-connected gprs type internet connection.

With GPRS you pay for data volume transmitted and not connection time.

I have an O2 XDA II phone that can do what you want today but this whole technology area is at the bleeding edge and best suited to techo enthusiasts who enjoy hunting down the latest bug fixes on the internet.

It costs about 2p to download a text only version of the shipping forecast. Normal web pages are a lot more expensive. I guess a typical email would costs between 2p and 5p.

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<Can you actually use them for serious writing>

No!

I've had an iPaq for about 3 years and it's a mothing but a toy (stand by to be flamed).

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Data costs

Having lived in Baltic / UK etc. and travelled with GSM / PDA ...... I have come to conclusion that :

a) I use GSM with cable / IR link to Notebook PC SMS texting wherever possible.
b) PDA is best left to PIM use
c) Navigation on Notebook PC is best way with GPS connected.

I am not ready to be flamed by others - as its been costed out by my accounts dept ..........

Sod all the fancy bits and bobs promised etc. I will use them when accounts say they are really economic - eg. one particular package I was offered as a company owner etc. - meant dialing out to remote 'operator' to be dialed back to when party was connected ...... cost was 2x what I had already dialing myself ......

To say I am very sceptical is to say the least !!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
 
i use a Psion handheld via an infrared link and a mobile phone to send / receive e mails when abroad. it works really well - in many ways the software is better than OE/IE. the keyboard allows you to write reasonable length messages.

never tried any plotter software - wouldnt think it would work since the psion is old technology.

have yet to meet anyone who does any serous writing with these character recognition packages like on an ipod

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 
I've got an Ipaq & yes you can surf the web with it. I connect to the web with a Nokia 6310i via Bluetooth. It is quick & simple to use. I use mine for weather forecasts when sailing & also have Tide calculation software on it. Its great connected to a GPS in the car & I see no reason why it wouldn't be just as effective, with suitable software, on the boat.

For serious writing you would really need on of the accessory keyboards. using the stylus is for simple tasks only.

Martin

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Re: Data costs, cheaper than you think

> a) I use GSM with cable / IR link to Notebook PC SMS texting wherever possible

Agreed, for any significant amount of typing a laptop is preferable. I assumed the original poster was not considering carrying a laptop aboard. My PDA displays an onscreen keyboard that can be tapped with a stylus, this means I can enter text faster even than an SMSing teenager on a number pad.

> b) PDA is best left to PIM use

They are progressing in leaps and bounds at the moment, what was true 2 years ago is now out of date. I find in-car GPS navigation and speed camera warnings useful. In theory a Bluetooth enabled pocket-pc-phone will do what the most expensive hand held colour GPS pocket plotter can do but it is not marinized.

> c) Navigation on Notebook PC is best way with GPS connected.

I think you are wrong but this has been debated a before.

> [Cost savings] To say I am very sceptical is to say the least !!

Why? You seem to like SMS and consider it cost effective. SMS was a low-tech forerunner to GPRS. Both technologies squeeze data over the ether in gaps between the voice traffic.

The most expensive data tariff costs £2.30 per Mb at O2, this equates to 6000 SMS messages or to be fair let's call it 1000 to account for email header overheads.




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I run an iPaq with Tide Plotter and Pocket Stars but, as yet, no maritime nav. system as my laptop C-Maps isn't handheld transferable (as far as I know). I do use Pocket Streets which is downloaded from my laptop MapPoint application.
Tide Plotter was a download which covers ports all over the world.
It costs about $14 a year. I got Pocket stars to help with astro-nav as its far quicker to look up data than trawling through almanac tables. Its also very useful for identifying stars when abroad or when you havn't been practicing for a while.
I use in IR link to a Nokia mobile for retrieving and sending Email. I can web-trawl on it, but can't be bothered.
I can't comment on the cost as I use a company account and so far no one has said anything.
You ask about "serious" writing. For anything more than diary entries or short Emails I use a Saitek keyboard which folds small enough to go in a pocket.
Ideally for boat use I would prefer a laptop, but I will not be taking my Evo on board and I cannot justify the cost of a second one for the boat, so the handheld is a good compromise.
Perhaps one downside is that even turned off the batteries will only keep enough power to maintain data, applications and settings for about a week. After that and its a case of downloading everything from the laptop again. Not too bad if you have a routine for regular synching.

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This is strangely enough a controversial issue with a lot of technology loyalty.

Short answers
1: Yes, they can be used for emailing as well as web browsing although the small screen sometimes maks web browsing difficult. And yes, you need a communicating device normally in the form of a mobile phone which can be built in or attached through bluetooth or IR.

2: Yes.

3: Yes, some have small keyboards but for serious writing you can buy a neat foldable keyboard. I use that for meetings and it works for me.

Ipac is but one of the models. Basically they are divided by the three major operating systems they use: Palm OS, Pocket PC and Symbian. Each with advantages and disadvantages. Furthermore, a lot of them are specialised and contains GPS receivers, keyboard or mobile phone (but not all).



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I have an Ipaq and yes internet access is possible via a mobile phone or wireless access. This will depend on model and jacket attached.

So it will not make access/email cheaper.

Astro / tides yes.

Serious writting. Define serious. I find notes and short letters are ok, but not pages and pages.

I also run TOM TOM GPS in the car which is very good.

Trial version of maptech struck me as not so good due to the small screen size.

Pocket Excel is good. As is diary and address book.

Check out sites like Handandgo for lots of other software.

However, I won't deny it is a bit of a toy and an electronic filofax.

The only real use for me is TOM TOM, which i use a lot for door to door visits to customers etc.





<hr width=100% size=1> "It is a pleasure to give advice, humiliating to need it, normal to ignore it"
 
Wow, what a mixture of information and disinformation...

For serious word-processsing - PDA is not a sensible proposition. PIM it is.

For navigation SW, there is quite a lot out and available, from the commercial leaders e.g. MaxSea, MapTech... but you might like to try out OziExplorer: you would have to pay our for the desk/laptop version to act as piggyback for the PDA. OziExp is super,and if your cruising area is not too vast, then scanning your charts (yes, diy) is a straightforward task I have moved away from OziExp, as I intend moving to a much larger cruising area, and so scanning charts would become a tedious chore.
Some of the commercial navigators extend the desk/laptop versions of their nav packages and/or charts to the PDA, either for a little or a lot of extra dosh.

What is certain is that they work fine.

They do NOT need to use a piggyback GPS sleeve, which drains an iPAQ battery v quickly. Use a bluetooth GPS, which are now freely available, and the PDA will pick up the signal anywhere within about 10m. - the GPS drawing current from ships batteries.

Wider communication is best done with gprs, as charges are based on data volume, and you can cut that down by not using pictures, almost text only. Getting your weather by email (there are cheap or free sources of GRIB data available) is very economical.

The thing to do is to read around, starting from the technical points made in these various postings, and then price up your possible solution.

Personally, I would go for a laptop based solution. Everything I said about PDA applies to a laptop, except you can use a cheap wired GPS (about £60), and it has the advantage of bigger screen, and can be used for all the PIM and proper computing tasks.

The downside is that it must be secured and needs some form of water proofing.

Of course, you could always buy paper charts and a Yeoman plotter, and keep a fair amount of money in your pocket, and feel closer to being a real navigator!!

;-))

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all
 
You can use a handheld for astro, but why bother? Thats effectively what a GPS does anyway, so why tolerate the extra risk / inaccuracy of using a sextant?

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 
Re: Data costs, cheaper than you think

SMS'ing by PC is an art that I have acquired and wherever possible use. I hate clicking the phone keys !!!!

PIM - OK so the PDA I have is an old one - but playing with latest toys in shops - I was not convinced about paying out the money when most of what I want it for is PIM. Once I change to a new one I am sure my opinion will change ....

Notebook nav - I navigated ships for 17 yrs awith Sextant and Transit Nav / Decca / Loran etc. I go on ships now as a Surveyor as well as my own boats ...... GPS and PC nav has brought opportunities and navigation to the masses like nothing else ....... my eTrex and Notebook with its Seaclear performs faster and more accuirately than any manual nav I ever saw or did ......ok subject to supply of electric of course etc.

I travel around a lot faxing / e-mailing / sms'ing and data tx'ing ..... my mobile phone bill is a lot more than many on the forum I would say ..... often running to high hundreds sometimes 1000 pound per month ..... so I think I may have an idea of what costs are involved - and I am talking Internationally - not just UK local.

I am always open to learning and adjusting to new ..... so I am not cast-iron on this .....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
 
Re: Data costs, cheaper than you think

I am with you re. the benefits of small boat electronic navigation particularly for shorthanded coastal pilotage. Offshore it is not a big deal to read a numeric GPS display and plonk a position on a paper chart.

Although I would like to be convinced otherwise, I still question the wisdom of using a laptop PC during a passage on a typical 32 foot 4 ton yacht in mixed weather, in UK waters.

> my mobile phone bill is a lot more than many on the forum I would
> say ..... often running to high hundreds sometimes 1000 pound per month

I am gobsmacked that your accounts department has not been able to demonstrate the benefits of mobile GPRS data comms for such heavy use. The entry level £2.30 per Mb figure I quoted earlier would reduce to 85p per Mb for high use i.e. > than 20Mb per month.

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jonjo on 08/04/2004 19:13 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Re: Data costs, cheaper than you think

Problem as I said is I am not based in UK ...... Latvia etc. has a higher Mobile Phone %age against population than UK - but we are limited on what services ..... we are always on the look-out for better services / alternative system ..... but again we need a) fullest coverage across the Baltic and Russia as well as when we travel around Europe, b) non-locked systems that allow us to manual select networks instead of the auto variety where often it chooses the more expensive....

Believe me we do not just pay without asking questions ..... my bill is about 40% roaming internationally, 80% calling international clients etc. etc. so will rack up whatever with the choices available out here ....

Your point is taken - and will be raised AGAIN with the providers. Maybe they are catching on ????? But I doubt it - seeing as a certain UK co. is involved out here ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
 
Re: GPS & Bluetooth

> Use a bluetooth GPS, which are now freely available,
> and the PDA will pick up the signal anywhere within about 10m. - the GPS
> drawing current from ships batteries.

Have you located a marine GPS/Bluetooth receiver/transmitter that can be hooked up to a 12v supply down below and yet is able to broadcast to the cockpit?

My Holux GPS struggles to transmit Bluetooth through more than 1 stud wall at home. I would be interested to hear if these devices can receive and transmit through GRP?

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Re: GPS & Bluetooth

http://www.gpskit.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cat=1&maincat=1&sid=sid2a0f00af6c8ca29df3f96f8ec4649617

I have NOT used one of these, preferring to use a laptop. I played with one (like the first, expensive one) and it seemed ok on rrom to room... not the most exhaustive test, we should suggest YM does some checks for us???

BTW, I have used the laptop in the past primarily for planning, and for looking at downloads of track afterwards, but rely on Yeoman plotter. I intend switching to use of the laptop in real-time now, and am looking at ways of securing said laptop. I have found that the non-slip matting holds to an angle of 45deg, but that is without any jarring to start a slide. I don't want to drill holes in my chart-table, so have to develop something fairly nifty.

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all
 
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