Ham and SSB Radios - Whats The Difference - If Any

[Deleted member 36384]

The recent thread on whether SSB is still valid or not has got me thinking about this subject. What is the differences between Ham and SSB. Wiki states the following: -

Amateur radio operators use various modes of transmission to communicate. The two most common modes for voice transmissions are frequency modulation (FM) and single sideband (SSB). FM offers high quality audio signals, while SSB is better at long distance communication when bandwidth is restricted.[8]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio

Is the Ham and SSB radio set the same device or is one just FM and then other just SSB?

Thanks. Yours In Ignorance,

BlowingOldBoots

 

[snowleopard]

They are basically the same device but with different frequency bands enabled. It is (I'm told) a simple job to enable a set of either type to cover both sets of frequencies.

Note that to legally use the ham bands you need to have a licence and a call sign. The same is officially true of marine bands but no one asks if you are licensed on the marine bands whereas hams won't talk to you unless you have an official callsign. The exam for ham use is quite a serious affair but the Long Range Certificate for marine use is something they give away like sweeties at the end of the course.

 

[maby]

In many cases, they are the same electronics, inside, at least. As posted above, each will be shipped with its transmit range restricted to the frequencies that it intended for, but it is usually easy to "open it up" to cover the full shortwave band on transmit.

Radios intended for marine use are often "channelised" - in other words the transmit frequency is selected in fixed steps so that it not possible to transmit "off-channel". Radios for amateur use will usually have continuous tuning, meaning that the operator needs to be more careful about setting up before calling.

Functionally there is no difference and an amateur radio transceiver is perfectly capable of doing marine service if the tuning range is opened up, but purpose built maritime radios are designed to be more idiot-proof!

 

[oldvarnish]

Worth remembering the a 'marine' spec radio is likely to be more rugged than one intended for domestic use.

 

[Conachair]

The recent thread on whether SSB is still valid or not has got me thinking about this subject. What is the differences between Ham and SSB. Wiki states the following: -



Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio

Is the Ham and SSB radio set the same device or is one just FM and then other just SSB?

Thanks. Yours In Ignorance,

BlowingOldBoots

Did the intermediate ham exam on sunday so,,

FM and SSB are 2 different ways of getting some info stuck on to a radio wave, be it voice or morse or data. Your vhf radio on the boat transmits FM. SSB is like AM radio but with the bottom half of the wave cut off. (or top half).

FM is generally much higher frequenciy and generally short range, line of sightish. (most of the time, though wierd stuff can happen).
SSB up to about 30Mhz can be world wide as the signal bounces off various layers of the ionosphere, which changes depending on sunlight which is why your am radio starts picking up lots foreign stations when the sun goes on.

Then there´s "marine ssb" which most people are refering to when they say SSB in the context of boats. It´s sort of like a cross betwen your VHF radio with channels and a ham radio transmitting SSB but uses different frequencies to ham. With a full ham license you are allowed to do much more than with a long range SSB license, like high power and build your own kit.


Think that´s sort of right

 

[maby]

Did the intermediate ham exam on sunday so,,

FM and SSB are 2 different ways of getting some info stuck on to a radio wave, be it voice or morse or data. Your vhf radio on the boat transmits FM. SSB is like AM radio but with the bottom half of the wave cut off. (or top half).

FM is generally much higher frequenciy and generally short range, line of sightish. (most of the time, though wierd stuff can happen).
SSB up to about 30Mhz can be world wide as the signal bounces off various layers of the ionosphere, which changes depending on sunlight which is why your am radio starts picking up lots foreign stations when the sun goes on.

Then there´s "marine ssb" which most people are refering to when they say SSB in the context of boats. It´s sort of like a cross betwen your VHF radio with channels and a ham radio transmitting SSB but uses different frequencies to ham. With a full ham license you are allowed to do much more than with a long range SSB license, like high power and build your own kit.


Think that´s sort of right

That's pretty accurate - I got my amateur radio licence in 1967 (if memory serves)... Also worth noting that the short range marine radios that we use around coastal waters are VHF FM - just a few megahertz above the 2m amateur band. Those frequencies like high pressure - you'll notice that during nice stable periods of weather like we have just now, the French and Belgian coast guards come in loud and clear in the south east - you'll be hard pressed to hear them in the middle of the winter.

 

[st599]

Amateur licence holders don't need to use type-approved equipment, marine users do.

 

[maby]

Amateur licence holders don't need to use type-approved equipment, marine users do.

That is true, and I'm not sure that even a commercially built amateur radio transceiver would be legal as a marine radio operated under a long range licence. The original question related to the technical comparability of the two types of radio and it is true that functionally, at least, a modern commercial HF amateur rig would be capable of doing everything that a purpose built marine radio can.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Thanks folks, great information. The yacht is fitted with the ground plate and power supply but I removed the back stay insulators when the rigging was removed. One day I hope to fit another radio. Perhaps a modified Ham radio set would be better. I guess the dial for tuning replaces the channel buttons on a ham set.

Thanks,

BlowingOldBoots

 

[snowleopard]

A point worth making if the OP is thinking of buying a marine SSB - I have an Icom set with 150 programmable channels. I have come across identical-looking sets that have those channels pre-programmed and fixed so you can only send/receive on those frequencies. You should check that you don't get a non-programmable set as they lock you out of lots of useful stuff.

 

[snowleopard]

I guess the dial for tuning replaces the channel buttons on a ham set.

This is one of the most popular sets...

The two big knobs aren't for tuning, they are channel selectors. The left hand one moves 10 channels per click, the right one channel at a time. You program the channels using the digital keypad.

 

[prv]

One day I hope to fit another radio. Perhaps a modified Ham radio set would be better.

Maybe - but you will have to go the full radio-geekery route to get a license to use it legally. I think the exam you'd have to pass still includes morse-code work, though not at the sort of high level it used to. There is also a certain amount of electronics and RF knowledge.

There are three levels of ham license, and because to them operating from a mobile set on a boat sounds pretty advanced, they restrict such operation to their highest level of ticket. This seems backwards to sailing types who just want to talk to each other on ham frequencies, because we may not want to do anything terribly complex and advanced from a radio point of view, and we don't consider it a big deal that our station happens to float. But it's the radio geeks that set the rules for their hobby, and they say you can't use a basic or intermediate ham ticket afloat.

If you don't like the sound of all that, the standard marine certificate (like the VHF course for SSB) is simpler.

Pete

 

[maby]

Thanks folks, great information. The yacht is fitted with the ground plate and power supply but I removed the back stay insulators when the rigging was removed. One day I hope to fit another radio. Perhaps a modified Ham radio set would be better. I guess the dial for tuning replaces the channel buttons on a ham set.

Thanks,

BlowingOldBoots

Indeed - it will always be possible to tune the ham radio to the correct frequency, but you may need to keep a written note of the frequencies for each channel - at least until you have memorised them!

As was pointed out by st599, there is a potential distinction between functional equivalence and compliance requirements - you may be breaking the terms of your long range licence by using a ham rig.

If you do fire it back up, get some good advice about the reinstatement of the antenna - the transmitter can build up some eye-wateringly high voltages at the ends of the antenna! If you accidentally touch it and it has not been correctly designed and installed, it will ruin your whole day!

 

[maby]

Maybe - but you will have to go the full radio-geekery route to get a license to use it legally. I think the exam you'd have to pass still includes morse-code work, though not at the sort of high level it used to. There is also a certain amount of electronics and RF knowledge.

There are three levels of ham license, and because to them operating from a mobile set on a boat sounds pretty advanced, they restrict such operation to their highest level of ticket. This seems backwards to sailing types who just want to talk to each other on ham frequencies, because we may not want to do anything terribly complex and advanced from a radio point of view, and we don't consider it a big deal that our station happens to float. But it's the radio geeks that set the rules for their hobby, and they say you can't use a basic or intermediate ham ticket afloat.

If you don't like the sound of all that, the standard marine certificate (like the VHF course for SSB) is simpler.

Pete

If he is intending to use it for marine communications, there is no need to go through the full amateur radio licence path - the ham licence does not confer any permission to transmit on the marine bands. It is quite probable that the marine licence does not permit the use of a ham radio rig on the marine bands either, but I'm not sure that you are likely to be caught provided you understand how to operate the radio - it is capable of compliant operation on the marine bands, just less idiot proof than a dedicated marine rig.

 

[tri39]

Additionally, altho I haven't used a marine SSB, I understand they can't operate on LSB so would be useless on the 7MHz and lower Ham bands.
Also the Ham radios will not operate (easily) on Duplex marine channels. However most yacht traffic is on the Simplex channels/frequencies.
I've just bought a secondhand Icom 706 for £500 which is a good onboard radio. But then I have a ham licence. Starting from scratch it may be simpler to go for the marine licence, but the gear tends to be more expensive.
Frankly you need none of it in the Med, but further afield it's worth having.

 

[prv]

If he is intending to use it for marine communications, there is no need to go through the full amateur radio licence path - the ham licence does not confer any permission to transmit on the marine bands. It is quite probable that the marine licence does not permit the use of a ham radio rig on the marine bands either, but I'm not sure that you are likely to be caught

I agree with all that, which is why I was careful to say:

to get a license to use it legally

You appear to be saying the same thing.

Pete

 

[Reverend Ludd]

.......but the Long Range Certificate for marine use is something they give away like sweeties at the end of the course.

How very dare you !!

 

[Skylark]

I got my amateur radio licence in 1967 (if memory serves)...

That's a long time ago, I'm impressed. Got my A licence in 1982. I remember having to drive more than 100 miles to/from Coastal Radio Station for the morse exam.

I'd like to get the LRC but it's a logistical nightmare for anyone living north of the south coast. Very few establishments seem to do it. The course is 4 days and the sweets given out at the end cost another £100. Not a cheap endeavour. One school seems to do an on-line version cutting classroom and exam to 2 days but they either run them at inconvenient times (to me) or don't run them because of insuficent numbers.

 

[maby]

That's a long time ago, I'm impressed. Got my A licence in 1982. I remember having to drive more than 100 miles to/from Coastal Radio Station for the morse exam.

....

The RAE was the first public exam I ever took - predating 'O' levels by a couple of years! It was a nerve wracking experience for a teenager. I passed several months before I was old enough to hold a licence - very frustrating wait!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

The RAE was the first public exam I ever took - predating 'O' levels by a couple of years! It was a nerve wracking experience for a teenager. I passed several months before I was old enough to hold a licence - very frustrating wait!

Snap. I was 11 at the time. School radio club which I think was G3MBH. And surprisingly, it was still valid when I took the 12wpm morse test 10 or so years ago despite the invention in the meantime of transistors and ICs.

Some of the information given to the OP is confusing and some is wrong. The radio signal you transmit is a carrier wave at, for example, 14million cycles per second which is modified in the transmitter to carry your information, such as voice sounds at maybe 10 thousand cycles per second. There are several ways of doing this modification - amplitude modification ( AM as in medium wave broadcast), frequency modification (FM as in VHF broadcast and boat VHF), single sideband ( mostly specialist comms) and even ( for morse) switching the carrier on and off to give dots and dashes.

Ham radio transceivers will usually allow you to chose which of these you want to use and in the case of SSB whether you use the upper or lower sideband. Marine SSB radios do SSB upper sideband only. Ham radios tune by dial just as your Mums old radiomobile. Marine SSB radios have channels just like your VHF.

Ham radio licences were for experimenting including building you own radio kit ( few still do that) and hams have a wide range of bands licenced for their use. Marine SSB is canalised and the frequencies used are fixed. To put it bluntly, someone not really knowing what they are doing is much less likely to cause problems with a marine set which is why the licence is easier to get and the set more restictive.

Finally, hams arent licenced to use marine frequencies and vice versa. So if you were to buy a ham set you would need to have it modified to use the frequencies you wanted if they are marine.