Tim Good
Well-Known Member
Having never owned one nor know anyone that does, can anyone tell me why HALLBERG RASSY yachts are so renowned? Is it just the interior or is there more to the boats as a whole?
HALLBERG RASSY - why good?
- Thread starter Tim Good
- Start date
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
The engine room is amazing
the access for repairs is very good. The,interior is so much better than a Jeanneau. Quality of finish all round. They are a heavy sturdy sea worthy boat and get going in a stiffening breeze when others Jeanneau would be shuddering at the prospect.
The club is very good, what i mean to say is, the HR blue gel coat strip that is noticable from a mile away is all you need to wonder on to another Hallberg Rassy for free drinks and cocktails. Te only down side to the blue strip is keeping it looking shinny, it is almost like having to look after Varnish. But then speak to a Blue hull owner and he will think you are the genius.
WHAT SIZE are you looking at buying?
the access for repairs is very good. The,interior is so much better than a Jeanneau. Quality of finish all round. They are a heavy sturdy sea worthy boat and get going in a stiffening breeze when others Jeanneau would be shuddering at the prospect.The club is very good, what i mean to say is, the HR blue gel coat strip that is noticable from a mile away is all you need to wonder on to another Hallberg Rassy for free drinks and cocktails. Te only down side to the blue strip is keeping it looking shinny, it is almost like having to look after Varnish. But then speak to a Blue hull owner and he will think you are the genius.
WHAT SIZE are you looking at buying?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
It is much the same as asking the question about why BMWs or Mercedes are so popular. HR have a particular philosophy about the design (mostly by German Frers) and construction of boats that appeals to people who want something better than the average. Over the years they have concentrated on reinforcing those characteristics that they believe differentiates their boats. Substantial displacement, hand crafted interiors, distinctive appearance in a recognisable "house" style, good quality fittings, well thought out systems and until recently limiting production so that there is always a long waiting list. This together with constant price increases of new boats has meant a strong secondhand market which gives a feeling of security to buyers.
Does not mean that they are trouble free and there are aspects of the boats such as the teak deck construction which are potential problems, particularly if the boat is neglected. However, the strong secondhand market means that these negative points are perhaps more easily dealt with than in boats of lower value.
Whether the characteristics of the brand are worth the considerable price premium is for you as a potential buyer to decide. Clearly those that do pay the premium seem happy with their decision and there are many who can't afford it, but wish they could.
Does not mean that they are trouble free and there are aspects of the boats such as the teak deck construction which are potential problems, particularly if the boat is neglected. However, the strong secondhand market means that these negative points are perhaps more easily dealt with than in boats of lower value.
Whether the characteristics of the brand are worth the considerable price premium is for you as a potential buyer to decide. Clearly those that do pay the premium seem happy with their decision and there are many who can't afford it, but wish they could.
jonic
Well-Known Member
Well put
They are a high quality product and those that can afford them appreciate the refinement
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
They are fitted from new with brass seacocks.
halcyon
Well-Known Member
Interesting choice of cars, last year three reliability surveys put both the cars along way down the ladder, well below Rover. In the same vane, is there that much difference between HR and the big Westerly's, except in both cases one is made abroad, cost 50% more and the British firm has gone.
Brian
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
The current generation of HRs (German Frers designs) are quite sprightly, unlike some of their predecessors.
I think the original philosophy might have been that an HR wouldn't necessarily get you there quickly, but at least you'd be travelling in comfort and security.
Nowadays, though, you can spend less time admiring the hand-crafted teak on passage, and more time in the flesh pots ashore.
Also, its modern designs seem to have gravitated towards aft cockpits, whereas previously all but the smallest models had centre cockpits
Oh, and you get a proper windscreen, not some lash-up in canvas and perspex.
I think the original philosophy might have been that an HR wouldn't necessarily get you there quickly, but at least you'd be travelling in comfort and security.
Nowadays, though, you can spend less time admiring the hand-crafted teak on passage, and more time in the flesh pots ashore.
Also, its modern designs seem to have gravitated towards aft cockpits, whereas previously all but the smallest models had centre cockpits
Oh, and you get a proper windscreen, not some lash-up in canvas and perspex.
snooks
Well-Known Member
It's all about quality. Not only the build quality but in the quality of materials used, and to address Vyv's point, I'm sure if you asked HR to fit DZR for you, they would.
Where on some boats you'll find a laminate wood finish, on an HR you'll find teak faced ply, on another boat where you might find teak faced ply, on an HR the teak bit will usually be thicker with a tighter grain and consistent colour.
The hulls are designed to be comfortable at sea with rounded forward sections, designed for sea keeping rather than accommodation. Impeccable handling. Only spun out on one once when we were hit by 40+ knots, with too much sail up.
The deck is insulated, so condensation doesn't form inside deck fittings are top quality.
They are solid, few if any creeks or groans from the boat as she sails
Years of experience goes into designing and building them.
The company is owned by a yachtsman, who sails, and he usually takes his family off on a long cruise in every new model. Any problems he finds are addressed. Magnus Rassy is a tall man, so they don't lack headroom. He's been sailing for years and will generally only fit the stuff to them from manufacturers he knows will support his owners.
One of the few brands that I could see us selling our boat to buy....after a lottery win
Where on some boats you'll find a laminate wood finish, on an HR you'll find teak faced ply, on another boat where you might find teak faced ply, on an HR the teak bit will usually be thicker with a tighter grain and consistent colour.
The hulls are designed to be comfortable at sea with rounded forward sections, designed for sea keeping rather than accommodation. Impeccable handling. Only spun out on one once when we were hit by 40+ knots, with too much sail up.
The deck is insulated, so condensation doesn't form inside deck fittings are top quality.
They are solid, few if any creeks or groans from the boat as she sails
Years of experience goes into designing and building them.
The company is owned by a yachtsman, who sails, and he usually takes his family off on a long cruise in every new model. Any problems he finds are addressed. Magnus Rassy is a tall man, so they don't lack headroom. He's been sailing for years and will generally only fit the stuff to them from manufacturers he knows will support his owners.
One of the few brands that I could see us selling our boat to buy....after a lottery win
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Salty John
Well-Known Member
You beat me to it, Vyv. I worked on one when I maintained a charter fleet many moons ago and the raw water intake was via a brass gate valve. The boat was well built in many respects but this aspect did surprise me.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
This makes no sense at all why would they do the? Is electrolysis not a problem in the baltic.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
I have corresponded with them about it. They say that nobody has ever complained of corroded seacocks, but then if you changed yours after say seven years, would you complain to the builder? On Snooks' point, no they wouldn't, well not without a lot of additional expense.
It isn't only HR, a surprising number of quality yachts use Guidi seacocks, all leaded brass.
[3889]
...
[Defensive mode on] The interior is undoubtedly much better than a Jeanneau, which is nice if you have an appreciation of fine furniture - not such good value if you buy a boat to go sailing and need cupboards just to keep your things in.
I've never been outsailed by a comparably sized HR in any conditions. Most recently, locking out of Arzal with a HR42, we arrived in Port Haliguen 30 minutes before them after a 40 mile beat into a F6. They might ride out storm conditions more comfortably but they do not out-sail Jeanneau.
Not everyone's idea of heaven
By the way, why pick on Jeanneau? I thought forum convention was to deride Bavaria (not that I think their poor reputation is justified, either.)
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
It's a big heavy beast that will sit comfortably in the trades.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Choice of car brands was deliberate. Illustrates that the reality does not always match the image! If you did the same type of survey on new yachts you might find a similar picture with Bav/Ben/Jen out scoring more prestigious brands. Not that I have a great deal of faith in such surveys as the sample is self selecting. Rankings from fleet operators and warranty companies is arguably more reliable as it is derived from real data. However, very difficult to collect reliable data from such as small and fragmented sector as boats.
clyst
Well-Known Member
[Defensive mode on] The interior is undoubtedly much better than a Jeanneau, which is nice if you have an appreciation of fine furniture - not such good value if you buy a boat to go sailing and need cupboards just to keep your things in.
I've never been outsailed by a comparably sized HR in any conditions. Most recently, locking out of Arzal with a HR42, we arrived in Port Haliguen 30 minutes before them after a 40 mile beat into a F6. They might ride out storm conditions more comfortably but they do not out-sail Jeanneau.
Not everyone's idea of heaven
By the way, why pick on Jeanneau? I thought forum convention was to deride Bavaria (not that I think their poor reputation is justified, either.)
Maybe the HR wasn't trying and just enjoying a quality cruise in a quality boat . Just saying .
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
I will address the dilemma using housing stock instead of cars
If you like modern zeromaintenance bungalows with doubleglazed windows and perhaps lacking in individual character , there are plenty of manufacturers out there competing for your custom. You will stay dry and warm and safe.
Ah but....Perhaps Sir has a leaning to Georgian aspirations?
A vessel of classic balanced features without distortion or overly large picture windows in unexpected places, a more homely feel, the subtle woodiness of an ageless interior, easy-on-the-eye proportions, the solid, reassuring feeling of something that might well become a hand me down to the next generation even..A sense of calm competence and less poke-in-the-eye..
Then there's Grand Designs. Build it fast modern and sleeeek, funky, quirky, it will cost ya but so what. Serious toys for serious spenders..This may well be the future you are (re)defining here..
I would suggest that HR are firmly in the Georgian middle ground.
I have been lucky enough to sail ( fairly hard) a HR49 sloop that the owner bought from his mate ChristophRassy, it wasn't perfect but it WAS very good and we managed to break a couple of things but, hey, it bashed to windward over nasty Meddy seas with the windspeed firmly up there at 45-50kn. And the owners comment when we arrived? ''Ha, if I'd bought a Swan we would've been here ages ago".. So, there's always something better out there!
And I need to ease out of these forums, repeating the same old stories now..
If you like modern zeromaintenance bungalows with doubleglazed windows and perhaps lacking in individual character , there are plenty of manufacturers out there competing for your custom. You will stay dry and warm and safe.
Ah but....Perhaps Sir has a leaning to Georgian aspirations?
A vessel of classic balanced features without distortion or overly large picture windows in unexpected places, a more homely feel, the subtle woodiness of an ageless interior, easy-on-the-eye proportions, the solid, reassuring feeling of something that might well become a hand me down to the next generation even..A sense of calm competence and less poke-in-the-eye..
Then there's Grand Designs. Build it fast modern and sleeeek, funky, quirky, it will cost ya but so what. Serious toys for serious spenders..This may well be the future you are (re)defining here..
I would suggest that HR are firmly in the Georgian middle ground.
I have been lucky enough to sail ( fairly hard) a HR49 sloop that the owner bought from his mate ChristophRassy, it wasn't perfect but it WAS very good and we managed to break a couple of things but, hey, it bashed to windward over nasty Meddy seas with the windspeed firmly up there at 45-50kn. And the owners comment when we arrived? ''Ha, if I'd bought a Swan we would've been here ages ago".. So, there's always something better out there!
And I need to ease out of these forums, repeating the same old stories now..
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lotusman
Well-Known Member
I echo previous comments made about high quality. My boat is a 1982 HR 38, an Enderlein design.
Some would criticise the necessity to go to the mast for sail handling, but wide and uncluttered decks, an easy motion at sea, and a cockpit free of lines and halliards are preferable to me. The gooseneck is comfortable just above waist height. I was astounded while sailing a friends 40’ Beneteau to find it necessary to use the thoughtfully provided mast step to reach the shoulder height gooseneck.
Forward visibility is a joy. The windscreen is very much preferable to a clear film. You can see through it while sitting down or look over it by standing up. There is no need to climb on the cockpit seat, something I found to be necessary on the aforementioned Beneteau.
I am 6 feet tall.
Last Saturday I was tacking down east Kyle in the company of a Sadler 32 and a westerly fulmar. The wind less than 10 knots the other two boats gradually caught up with me and started to move ahead. When the wind increased to 15 knots I started to catch them again. When the wind reached 20 knots I left them for dead. No need to reef or put on foul weather gear. By the time the other two boats reached Tarbert I had the cockpit to cover on, had visited the office to pay the fee and was warming up curry for dinner.
My boat is worth about 70 per cent of the cost of my friends Beneteau, but then she is a little shorter and more than 25 years older.
Some would criticise the necessity to go to the mast for sail handling, but wide and uncluttered decks, an easy motion at sea, and a cockpit free of lines and halliards are preferable to me. The gooseneck is comfortable just above waist height. I was astounded while sailing a friends 40’ Beneteau to find it necessary to use the thoughtfully provided mast step to reach the shoulder height gooseneck.
Forward visibility is a joy. The windscreen is very much preferable to a clear film. You can see through it while sitting down or look over it by standing up. There is no need to climb on the cockpit seat, something I found to be necessary on the aforementioned Beneteau.
I am 6 feet tall.
Last Saturday I was tacking down east Kyle in the company of a Sadler 32 and a westerly fulmar. The wind less than 10 knots the other two boats gradually caught up with me and started to move ahead. When the wind increased to 15 knots I started to catch them again. When the wind reached 20 knots I left them for dead. No need to reef or put on foul weather gear. By the time the other two boats reached Tarbert I had the cockpit to cover on, had visited the office to pay the fee and was warming up curry for dinner.
My boat is worth about 70 per cent of the cost of my friends Beneteau, but then she is a little shorter and more than 25 years older.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
lotusman
Well-Known Member
a different occasion, benefit of windscreen and cosy cockpit visible at about 1.40 :
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FullCircle
Well-Known Member
I thought about this conundrum when I bought my Jeanneau.
The price was just over double for a 35ft #quality# boat.
I reckoned that by spending around £10k on furniture upgrades, the cheapness could be taken out.
I have had all of my doors and lockers routed out, and solid teak cappings added. I have disposed of the Jeanneau saloon table, and have a bespoke design of my own, with far better teak ply, using 1/16" rather than 1/32" veneers, and solid teak large fiddles. The workmanship added means there are no iron on edges left. I had the new furniture sprayed to match production satin fit out, not possible with hand finishing, and also the new woodwork was bleached and blended to match the 5 year old sun fade on the rest of the boat. It matches perfectly, and looks like it has always been there.
The last job to finish will be the sole boards, which I will replace in the next couple of years.
Total outlay for all that has been less than budget.
My windscreen, to be fitted this winter, is also bespoke and more like the Moody 45 with wraparound panels and stainless steel frame rather than those grim flat panels on HRs, Najads and Malos which are lazy styling, in my view.
So, I like my Jeanneau, it has the same equipment as any #quality# competitor, sails as well as I want it to (its a lift keel east coast boat).
However, I am not sure about your exclusive club, as I have been invited to visit HR boats, and invited them back. We both have interesting dsicussions on style and construction of layout, sailing performance etc, as with all other makes and models.
For Vyv: I have replaced 4 of my cocks with DZP. The rest will follow shortly.
The price was just over double for a 35ft #quality# boat.
I reckoned that by spending around £10k on furniture upgrades, the cheapness could be taken out.
I have had all of my doors and lockers routed out, and solid teak cappings added. I have disposed of the Jeanneau saloon table, and have a bespoke design of my own, with far better teak ply, using 1/16" rather than 1/32" veneers, and solid teak large fiddles. The workmanship added means there are no iron on edges left. I had the new furniture sprayed to match production satin fit out, not possible with hand finishing, and also the new woodwork was bleached and blended to match the 5 year old sun fade on the rest of the boat. It matches perfectly, and looks like it has always been there.
The last job to finish will be the sole boards, which I will replace in the next couple of years.
Total outlay for all that has been less than budget.
My windscreen, to be fitted this winter, is also bespoke and more like the Moody 45 with wraparound panels and stainless steel frame rather than those grim flat panels on HRs, Najads and Malos which are lazy styling, in my view.
So, I like my Jeanneau, it has the same equipment as any #quality# competitor, sails as well as I want it to (its a lift keel east coast boat).
However, I am not sure about your exclusive club, as I have been invited to visit HR boats, and invited them back. We both have interesting dsicussions on style and construction of layout, sailing performance etc, as with all other makes and models.
For Vyv: I have replaced 4 of my cocks with DZP. The rest will follow shortly.