davidej
Well-Known Member
We have a guy around our way who has put something like that on his boat - not an HR I hasten to add.
He is known locally as "**** the shed".I won't embarrass him by giving the actual name.
Hallberg Rassy hardtop
- Thread starter pandos
- Start date
We have a guy around our way who has put something like that on his boat - not an HR I hasten to add.
He is known locally as "**** the shed".I won't embarrass him by giving the actual name.
LoneHort
Well-Known Member
Well as the custodians of a Salar 40 designed by Laurent Giles a much older craft I must say I'm having a chuckle at this thread. Talk of sticking a hard dodger/ doghouse on one of the world's best sailboat brands. Easily the best feature on the Salar is the doghouse, whether it's shelter from the elements or having the dinner upstairs as opposed to downstairs which we do all the time. Whatever about the HR's and the partial dodger we came across an IP SP cruiser recently with the crew having their dinner in their cockpit and I can tell you both the dinner and the crew were frozen!
richardm47
Well-Known Member
You just need to trade up to an HR 35 Rasmus! Expensive though, more than £40k for a good one.
One observation: the Rasmus has a much more steeply inclined windscreen than later HR models. So I think you will have a hard time getting enough headroom on a 352 without extending the windscreen upwards by an amount which will unbalance the look. I have 69” under my hardtop.
Even if you don’t upgrade to a Rasmus, it would be worth going to see one to get ideas for your project. Mine is an aftermarket one built with plywood and rib reinforcement. It’s a bit angular for my liking. But I have seen others with a much more elegant, rounded design from fibreglass. I suspect that HR did these.
You are dead right to want a hardtop though. I forsook a rather more sporty Sweden Yachts 36 to buy my Rasmus, thinking that the hardtop would be valuable protection from the elements. It is! and now I would not even consider another boat without a hardtop in our UK climate.
Another thought: the handhold rails on each side of our hardtop are worth their weight in gold. Means you must have a very strongly fitted structure though.
One observation: the Rasmus has a much more steeply inclined windscreen than later HR models. So I think you will have a hard time getting enough headroom on a 352 without extending the windscreen upwards by an amount which will unbalance the look. I have 69” under my hardtop.
Even if you don’t upgrade to a Rasmus, it would be worth going to see one to get ideas for your project. Mine is an aftermarket one built with plywood and rib reinforcement. It’s a bit angular for my liking. But I have seen others with a much more elegant, rounded design from fibreglass. I suspect that HR did these.
You are dead right to want a hardtop though. I forsook a rather more sporty Sweden Yachts 36 to buy my Rasmus, thinking that the hardtop would be valuable protection from the elements. It is! and now I would not even consider another boat without a hardtop in our UK climate.
Another thought: the handhold rails on each side of our hardtop are worth their weight in gold. Means you must have a very strongly fitted structure though.
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pandos
Well-Known Member
Hallberg Rassy do this on many models, no body has yet suggested that their versions are not acceptable.
Thefore the remaining questions are whether properly scaled it would look ok but still function, on a HR352. and what size it should be.
The answer to this first question is, I submit, contained in the photos of the Rasmus 35 linked to in earlier posts which suggest to my eyes that what I propose will not look bad, if properly executed using the scale of that 35 footer with the construction techniques of the modern HR version. ( fiberglass body with inset individual windows)
I still await some "positive" assistance with the precise measurements of an original HR hardtop from a HR42e or the like....
BrianH
Well-Known Member
Well, I treated myself to one for my 70th birthday and 13 years later I am "older" but, I hope, no "less able" to still enjoy sailing it, mostly single-handed.
Not seen as negative at all, I too think they look ungainly with the doghouse appearing something like a designer's afterthought. But that's judging them by a sailing enthusiast's eye rather than for what they are, a motorsailer - albeit more sailor than motor.
pandos
Well-Known Member
Without wanting to sound partronising.... Well done you.
Javelin
Well-Known Member
One of my recent projects on my own boat was to build a semi hard top, similar to the Hallberg Rassy .
I'm fed up trying to peer through opaque plastics window when in grotty conditions, especially on a passage at night.
At the same time I didn't want it to ruin the lines of the boat which on a sporty 3/4 tonner style boat I knew was going to be tricky.
If I'm happy with the end result I'll put all the stages of the design and build together as an article in a future pbo,
I've added a few shots of general progress below to give you an idea.
I'm fed up trying to peer through opaque plastics window when in grotty conditions, especially on a passage at night.
At the same time I didn't want it to ruin the lines of the boat which on a sporty 3/4 tonner style boat I knew was going to be tricky.
If I'm happy with the end result I'll put all the stages of the design and build together as an article in a future pbo,
I've added a few shots of general progress below to give you an idea.
pandos
Well-Known Member
Hi I take your point, in fact I went to the boat on saturday and made some guesstimations and experimenting. I also dis a lot of scaling from drawings of the modern HR versions.
The faces of mine will be slightly more vertical than the windscreen and will also be a good bit taller, but pretty close to your 69".
I will be able to see over it easily when standing and through it when sitting, the roof will be about 4 inches above my head when sat in the cockpit, All comments from those with them are that they would not do without them.
One of the posts I took great interest is a guy spending 5 years renovating a Rasmus, with a hardtop.
Thanks
pandos
Well-Known Member
Javelin,
That is an interesting project, I am going to use use melamine faced MDF propped in place and then glass up against the inner face, although I considered your approach, The windows in mine will need to be almost the size of the facets, and the roof will be nearly 8 feet x 4 foot so I will need some pretty strong fiber-glassing.
Agree about semi opaque spray hoods, I never fiited one on my boat even though I had one for each, my mate used to kill me for lowering his the moment I went on board....
That is an interesting project, I am going to use use melamine faced MDF propped in place and then glass up against the inner face, although I considered your approach, The windows in mine will need to be almost the size of the facets, and the roof will be nearly 8 feet x 4 foot so I will need some pretty strong fiber-glassing.
Agree about semi opaque spray hoods, I never fiited one on my boat even though I had one for each, my mate used to kill me for lowering his the moment I went on board....
coopec
N/A
Pandos
I think I'll use MDF as a mold too but I will wax the outer face and lay-up on that. I have plenty of divinycell so I'll use that as a core material (light/strength/stiffness) and then a couple of final layers of CSM over that. There would be very little finishing off as most would be glass window and an opening hatch for ventilation in front and overhead.
Clive
I think I'll use MDF as a mold too but I will wax the outer face and lay-up on that. I have plenty of divinycell so I'll use that as a core material (light/strength/stiffness) and then a couple of final layers of CSM over that. There would be very little finishing off as most would be glass window and an opening hatch for ventilation in front and overhead.
Clive
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BrianH
Well-Known Member
It is a boon not just in the UK climate. I sail in the Adriatic and we can get bad weather there too in the extended seasons and the protection afforded by a doghouse are welcome. And when the sun does shine, as it usually does, it is HOT ... the roof serves as a bimini, and better than a flimsy canvas one. I often leave the top section of the complete cockpit tent in place to extend the shaded area.
Good point. They are, in my opinion, essential when climbing out of the cockpit in rough weather.
Also essential in hot weather. With my forward-raked front panel it can easily accommodate a hinged one - not so easy with the more aesthetic rearwards-raked one. An opening section in the roof hinged at the rear to vent air in would be an alternative.
Javelin
Well-Known Member
I used the plywood simply to template and then transferred this to shower board which is just a plastic board with a shiny surface which we happened to have a load left over after a refit.
Could have used shiny ply or mdf.
I used resin tape on the corners and joints.
I decided to lay up on the outside so the inside would be flat and shiny which left the outside needing to be gelcoated and flatted back which I considered as the easier option.
I also used a couple of layers of carbon fibre tape round the stress areas though to be honest the angles of each panel coupled with the top and bottom returns have resulted in a very stiff structure.
Weight is currently around 10kg which will obviously double, at least, once fitted with the toughened glass. which will be bonded to the frame using Sabatack.
Could have used shiny ply or mdf.
I used resin tape on the corners and joints.
I decided to lay up on the outside so the inside would be flat and shiny which left the outside needing to be gelcoated and flatted back which I considered as the easier option.
I also used a couple of layers of carbon fibre tape round the stress areas though to be honest the angles of each panel coupled with the top and bottom returns have resulted in a very stiff structure.
Weight is currently around 10kg which will obviously double, at least, once fitted with the toughened glass. which will be bonded to the frame using Sabatack.
pandos
Well-Known Member
That is an interesting approach to the glazing, I thought about doing things that way, by forming a recess to hold the glass so the outside face would flush, but I think for my old tub it needs the aluminium framing to ensure it does not look too out of place..
I am also going to use carbon fiber or kevlar (are they the same) but the frames will probably give me sufficient strength... as you say the shape creates a strong structure in itself...
Javelin
Well-Known Member
A a general rule, carbon gives you strength and stiffness but its not good for impacts and is brittle.
Kevlar is very good for impact strength but is not very stiff.
Woven grp sits in the middle-ish
I used the carbon to save adding layers of grp to get the same stiffness.
1 layer of 250gm carbon being roughly the equiv of 3 layers of 250gm biaxial.
As stated the glass will be bonded to the inside of the frame and a radius bead of white Saba round the outside edge.
Sabatack is very strong so once cured I see no reason to have anything on the inside holding the glass in place.
If however I have any concerns I can always add an internal frame but given the hassle we have taking out old windows secured with Saba or sika after the screws have been removed I don't see this as a problem.
Time will tell I guess.
Kevlar is very good for impact strength but is not very stiff.
Woven grp sits in the middle-ish
I used the carbon to save adding layers of grp to get the same stiffness.
1 layer of 250gm carbon being roughly the equiv of 3 layers of 250gm biaxial.
As stated the glass will be bonded to the inside of the frame and a radius bead of white Saba round the outside edge.
Sabatack is very strong so once cured I see no reason to have anything on the inside holding the glass in place.
If however I have any concerns I can always add an internal frame but given the hassle we have taking out old windows secured with Saba or sika after the screws have been removed I don't see this as a problem.
Time will tell I guess.
pandos
Well-Known Member
thanks for that explanation,
Maybe Ill just stick to woven GRP probablu 6" tape will do me as my final parts will only be about 3inch wide around the window frames including the portion covered with the frame.
so probably the build up will consist: (working inwards from the mold).......Gelcoat, Tissue, 2 layers of tape, layer of 3mm core? 2 layers of tape, layer of tissue, flow coat.
coopec
N/A
so probably the build up will consist: (working inwards from the mold).......Gelcoat, Tissue, 2 layers of tape, layer of 3mm core? 2 layers of tape, layer of tissue, flow coat.[/QUOTE]
"3mm of core". What point would that be? I can't imagine that would give any stiffness. Is that a typo?
I'll be using Divinycell but it would probably have a thickness of 10mm
Clive
"3mm of core". What point would that be? I can't imagine that would give any stiffness. Is that a typo?
I'll be using Divinycell but it would probably have a thickness of 10mm
Clive
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pandos
Well-Known Member
https://lantor.com/coremat/
My layup will be only about 10mm total., I am concerned at the inner part of the frames meeting on the insides of the angles. If I made the structure too thick,
My layup will be only about 10mm total., I am concerned at the inner part of the frames meeting on the insides of the angles. If I made the structure too thick,
Pete7
Well-Known Member
Bit off topic, but he isn't the owner of the Westerly Centaur that was converted into a motor sailor complete with hard top is he? The boat appeared in PBO mid 1990s I think, been mentioned a few times on here along with a few sniggers.
Pete
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
Apart from the Rasmus 35, hard tops were only offered on HR models from 42' upwards.
There is one for sale in our marina : asking price €128k.