Greta, Trump and similar topics

[franksingleton]

To be honest Frank, you as far as I can tell are by far the most knowledge of us about weather, and for that reason an invaluable asset to this sailing forum. You are clearly somebody we should all be listening to most closely. Not to mention that your arguments are invariably polite and evidence based.

The trouble with the climate debate, IMHO, is that disagreements may in no small measure be traced to the anarchists - feted by left of centre politicians - who managed to tribalise this important issue with a split appearing broadly down the lines between left and right and between developed and emerging economies. And for that reason I think the Extinction Rebellion, and I'm sorry to say Greta too, have generally done more harm than good.

Not to mention that China and India are dragging their heels, that countries like Indonesia and Malaysia are effectively being plundered by EU bio-fuel regulations, that the United States has backed away, all while parts of the world are slowly sinking.

Sad.

i agree with much of what you say. To me it is, or should not be a political matter. But if you look across the big pond, you will see the influence of the energy industry blocking any action. George Bush was strongly supported by the industry, Trump also seems to be kow-towing to the industry. You see far right “think tanks” funded by the industry - a repeat of the tobacco controversy. It is not surprising that anyone wanting action on climate is seen as a leftie. Over here, I will await with interest to see how seriously Johnson will approach COP26. I do not the Priti Patel was a tobacco firm lobbyist. But, I am just an old cynic. And a worried one.

 

[Beneteau381]

i agree with much of what you say. To me it is, or should not be a political matter. But if you look across the big pond, you will see the influence of the energy industry blocking any action. George Bush was strongly supported by the industry, Trump also seems to be kow-towing to the industry. You see far right “think tanks” funded by the industry - a repeat of the tobacco controversy. It is not surprising that anyone wanting action on climate is seen as a leftie. Over here, I will await with interest to see how seriously Johnson will approach COP26. I do not the Priti Patel was a tobacco firm lobbyist. But, I am just an old cynic. And a worried one.

Again, this sort of stuff should not be on here, can you not confine it to the dedicated forum?

 

[SaltIre]

Indeed and this is what this forum is about. Laika is quite correct, all that shouty stuff achieves nothing! Tribalism is unfortunately where we are now. Hurling insults may make grumpy old men feel good but achieves nothing!

Au Contraire, mon ami.
Hurling insults does, occasionally, achieve something - it even made a grumpy old man feel good.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Again, this sort of stuff should not be on here, can you not confine it to the dedicated forum?

One can only ask why do you keep reading them if it gets a bee in your bonnet, I do not watch EastEnders and when it comes on I switch channel , why do you not switch forum threads
I find the Discussion on here rather interesting and it can sometimes be lost in the Dark side

 

[Resolution]

It will be a cold day in hell before I participate in a sub-forum of The Lounge (sponsored by Der Stürmer)

JD, unfortunately due to climate change I regret to inform you that the weather in hell has been affected and cold days are becoming increasingly frequent. You may find yourself in the Lounge yet.

 

[franksingleton]

Again, this sort of stuff should not be on here, can you not confine it to the dedicated forum?

I agree. But I would point out that two threads were recently started in this forum ostensibly to discuss Greta’s Atlantic crossings but knowing full well that, inevitably, somebody would indulge in character assassination. My intention in the OP was to emphasise the existence of the climate sub-forum.

Climate discussions in the Lounge could and did descend into anarchy. I can well understand the reluctance of some to take part. However, if you look at recent threads in the forum dedicated solely to climate issues you will see that they are being conducted sensibly without the historic vituperation. I can only hope that continues. We seem to have lost most, if not all, of the trolls. I can only encourage anyone who has a genuine interest in climate related issues to take part. You may well learn something, I am doing so quite often either directly from posts or from looking into matters raised.

 

[Babylon]

Again, this sort of stuff should not be on here, can you not confine it to the dedicated forum?

Why would anyone willingly enter a cesspit?

I want to hear what people with rigorous scientific training and a deep knowledge gained over a lifetime of professional work - like Frank - have to say on the matter, as well as benefit from the considered thoughts of regular (i.e. Scuttlebutt or PBO) forumites.

I most certainly do not want my day's energy sapped or my psyche assaulted by a horde of closed-minded, malign or otherwise destructive people with nothing better to do than wantonly perpetuate ignorance or pick a fight.

 

[Quandary]

It will be a cold day in hell before I participate in a sub-forum of The Lounge (sponsored by Der Stürmer)

For years I felt the same, but these days with the climate deteriorating the way it has, I am stuck indoors much of the time, so now and again I take my stick, stagger down there and do a bit of poking.

 

[Scotsailor]

Now that La Vagabonde are publishing the videos of the crossing it would be good to be able to discuss them on here. Surely that is what this forum is for? So I don’t agree the thread should have been deleted.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

If those who do not want this topic in Scuttlebutt did not contribute to it, it would soon drop off the bottom of the page into oblivion. The lack of self control is bordering on hysteria.

 

[dom]

If those who do not want this topic in Scuttlebutt did not contribute to it, it would soon drop off the bottom of the page into oblivion. The lack of self control is bordering on hysteria.

Why on earth would someone, "not want this topic in Scuttlebutt"?

Much easier to just not click on threads of no personal interest

 

[franksingleton]

Why on earth would someone, "not want this topic in Scuttlebutt"?

Much easier to just not click on threads of no personal interest

Quite. My understanding is that the moderators are keen to avoid thread drift which is what the two Greta Atlantic crossing threads were calculated to produce.

 

[doug748]

If those who do not want this topic in Scuttlebutt did not contribute to it, it would soon drop off the bottom of the page into oblivion. The lack of self control is bordering on hysteria.

Why on earth would someone, "not want this topic in Scuttlebutt"?

Much easier to just not click on threads of no personal interest

I agree to a large extent, except you get a sort of morbid exhibitionism where partial views are posted more and more, just to get up the nose of personal antagonists.
This can lead to the events we saw in the Lounge where every other thread was about Europe with the same people saying the same things.

Anyway I shall take your advice and Unwatch the lot. Lets hope for more sailing stuff.

 

[Scotsailor]

This is ridiculous. A well publicised crossing of the Atlantic. Now showing in video showings. And can’t be discussed. Ridiculous

 

[Scotsailor]

I’ve requested my log in be removed. This is exactly what the forum should be discussing. Yet the idiots are blocking it

 

[Scotsailor]

And cancel my subscription to Yachting Monthly while you’re at it

 

[franksingleton]

This is ridiculous. A well publicised crossing of the Atlantic. Now showing in video showings. And can’t be discussed. Ridiculous

The problem was that the thread was hijacked by people wanting to indulge in ad hominems re Greta.

 

[Scotsailor]

I’m writing to the editor. This is a ridiculous state of affairs. This is a high profile crossing of the Atlantic which we should be able to discuss. I’n fact the purpose of the forum should be to discuss such high profile crossing Just delete my subscription If you disagree

 

[Simon__]

It’s difficult. Climate Change is an important topic but it’s pretty much just a political buzz word to feign social responsibility at the moment. With the ‘need’ for constant growth, consumption is a given and climate change doesn’t really stand a chance.

The problem with this voyage is it’s all PR. LV are trying to grow their brand, maybe they believe in the cause too but this is mainly about increasing their revenue. Greta is similarly trying to bring focus onto CC but her ‘no fly’ policy appears illogical when you consider the support staff which need to fly to keep this going (and often lead to more emissions than if Greta had just flown herself). Going further, we’re told we need to change our lifestyles; eat less meat, reduce foreign travel but we’re being told this by a 17 year old who constantly travels and will have visited more countries in a few months than most will in their entire lives. Irrespective of her agenda, which may be completely wholesome, it raises challenges. Why should I reduce my standard of living if the activists refuse to make the least damaging transport choices (If you don’t fly but a crew needs to fly for you to sail, this defeats the purpose). Why aren’t activists using technology to reduce travel, I expect they would advocate using Skype etc. for meetings for everyone else but seems unable / unwilling to do this themselves.

Yes, these people are ‘doing something’ and pursuing a cause they believe in, the frustration is they don’t lead by example and expect the majority to adhere to standards they refuse to adopt themselves. So, it is difficult to discuss the voyage (the what) without getting into the politics (the why) or the logistics (the how).

 

[Scotsailor]

To be honest Frank, you as far as I can tell are by far the most knowledge of us about weather, and for that reason an invaluable asset to this sailing forum. You are clearly somebody we should all be listening to most closely. Not to mention that your arguments are invariably polite and evidence based.

The trouble with the climate debate, IMHO, is that disagreements may in no small measure be traced to the anarchists - feted by left of centre politicians - who managed to tribalise this important issue with a split appearing broadly down the lines between left and right and between developed and emerging economies. And for that reason I think the Extinction Rebellion, and I'm sorry to say Greta too, have generally done more harm than good.

Not to mention that China and India are dragging their heels, that countries like Indonesia and Malaysia are effectively being plundered by EU bio-fuel regulations, that the United States has backed away, all while parts of the world are slowly sinking.

Sad.

My argument is simple. La Vagabonde is the premier YouTube sailing channel. They have a series of 6 videos covering their crossing of the Atlantic. I’m interested in these videos. It would seem reasonable to discuss them on this forum. If that’s not possible I’m out. Because I don’t see what the problem is