Greek municipal harbour fees

[Sybaris]

Yes!! the subjects of complaints are running a bit thin now, but for all "doom and gloom" mongers out there [editors note: this is called sarcasm] I am happy to report that an old rule which was rarely followed by the port police is now starting to be implemented in some places following orders from higher up.

The port fee is a standard 0.36 Euro per meter. Most offices charge this amount (when they charge at all) for each night you stay. The "new" rule (and I have spoken to several different port police offices and they all confirm that the rule is not actually new just simply rarely implimented) is that you should be charged for each day, i.e. if you arrive on the 21'st, stay one night and leave the 22'nd you should be charged for 2 days.

Considering that it is totally reasonable to charge such a small amount for staying in a municipal harbour/town quay/fishing shelter, and considering that the national finances are as we know well in the red I personally think that the collection of harbour dues should definately be enforced on a more regular basis.

I have heard many stories from yachties who have stayed say 6 nights and reported only 1 or 2 to the port police, left early in the morning to skip paying, or simply "stayed under the radar" by never getting the DEKPA stamped at all. Those of you in this category need not argue this thread along the lines that; "we should be allowed to stay free because our EU money has paid the harbours", "the price is far too high considering you get 'nothing' for the money", or perhaps the unwritten "we are much better than the Greeks and should be allowed to decide which rules and regulations are correct, and how much we should pay, because we are so important to the local economy" [editors note: even more sarcasm].

Those of you who agree that the port police should be more diligent in charging yachts using municipal harbours, and that the fees are very reasonable, hands up.

 

[Silverado]

I have to agree with this sentiment. I have noticed that the Port Police do seem to be far more active this year. I have called to Vathi on Ithica for a number of years now but this was the first year that I was actually approached by the Port Police and asked to call to the Harbour Office. The same thing happened at Patra and in Preveza they always seem to be active. They are obviously concerned for their jobs and need to show some activity.

The same couldn't be said for the security guards in Preveza Airport a few weeks ago who had no interest whatsoever in what we were bringing aboard in our hand luggage.

Greek harbours are beautiful and usually free. Compare them with their Italian counterparts who are charging up to €100 per night this time of year. I for one don't begrudge the modest overnight fees.

 

[Tranona]

I don't think there would be much resistance to paying the dues. I think what upsets many people is the inconsistency - not just port to port but day to day. In many ways the lack of enforcement has helped as it leads to a very relaxed holiday atmosphere for most. And, of course a high proportion of yachts are charter or flotilla boats which bring substantial economic benefit to the harbours they visit. Charging 4 Euros for a boat that is probably spending 100-150 euros in the tavernas each night does seem a bit churlish.

 

[vyv_cox]

The port fee is a standard 0.36 Euro per meter. Most offices charge this amount (when they charge at all) for each night you stay.

Not quite correct. The standard port tariff form has several lines, two of which apply to yachts. The first of these is 0.30 times length and the second is 0.36 times length. In most cases the two are simply added together per day, plus tax, which for my 10.6 metres comes to €8.38. On a couple of occasions this year the first charge has been a one-off for the first day only, whereas in every previous case it has been charged every time. I have these forms going back four years, almost every one for €8.38, although occasionally there have been variations.

I believe that the first of these is a tax that is not applied if you have an annual contract with a marina, in which case you have already paid it. I have never been in a position to try this one.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Not quite correct. The standard port tariff form has several lines, two of which apply to yachts. The first of these is 0.30 times length and the second is 0.36 times length. In most cases the two are simply added together per day, plus tax, which for my 10.6 metres comes to €8.38. On a couple of occasions this year the first charge has been a one-off for the first day only, whereas in every previous case it has been charged every time. I have these forms going back four years, almost every one for €8.38, although occasionally there have been variations.

I believe that the first of these is a tax that is not applied if you have an annual contract with a marina, in which case you have already paid it. I have never been in a position to try this one.

Hi
I think you are right .All Greek flagged charter boats pay a annual port fee in Athens .That's why you overhear the comment "They only pick on us foreigners and never charge the Greeks" .
I for one like to think that as i spend 300 euro minimum a week in a small town.i don`t like paying a fee. This is a old fashioned idea I know ,perhaps it because Ive not had to pay too often in the last 20 years.

Oh well times,they are a changing

 

[CharlesSwallow]

Not quite correct. The standard port tariff form has several lines, two of which apply to yachts. The first of these is 0.30 times length and the second is 0.36 times length. In most cases the two are simply added together per day, plus tax, which for my 10.6 metres comes to €8.38. On a couple of occasions this year the first charge has been a one-off for the first day only, whereas in every previous case it has been charged every time. I have these forms going back four years, almost every one for €8.38, although occasionally there have been variations.

I believe that the first of these is a tax that is not applied if you have an annual contract with a marina, in which case you have already paid it. I have never been in a position to try this one.

** Heikell suggests this in his "Ionian" Guide and I have always carried a letter from the marina to this effect.

It works.

Well, it DID in Fiskardo last year and I have the receipt to prove it but I havn't been asked for much else in the way of dues since so I can't be categorical. However, since we've spent the last two weeks here talking about "Greek PP inconsistency", that is hardly surprising.

Chas

 

[Pinetops]

Our experience is that there are 3 lines on the standard form relevant to yachts the 2nd and 3rd relating to end on berthing and alongside berthing. The later is 30% or so higher per lin metre (can't remember exactly and not on board). Either way it is relatively small money and includes free water although usually necessary to move to obtain it. We also experienced per day and per night inconsistencies - becomes less important the longer you stay.

 

[charles_reed]

Not old-fashioned - just careful with money.

Nearly everywhere else in Europe one is expected to and expects to pay port dues and, unlike Croatia, there are no charges for anchoring in Greece.

 

[chrisgee]

I don't think there would be much resistance to paying the dues. I think what upsets many people is the inconsistency - not just port to port but day to day. In many ways the lack of enforcement has helped as it leads to a very relaxed holiday atmosphere for most. And, of course a high proportion of yachts are charter or flotilla boats which bring substantial economic benefit to the harbours they visit. Charging 4 Euros for a boat that is probably spending 100-150 euros in the tavernas each night does seem a bit churlish.

I agree with all you`ve said. I had a very interesting chat to a senior Port Policeman a few years back on the subject of fees. I suggested that probably all visiting yachtsmen would have no objection to paying a modest overnight fee of which part might go into a fund to improve harbours etc.
His very sincere answer was that the Port Police were not there to collect taxes which would be sent to Athens never to be seen again.
Therein maybe lies the root of the matter and could be partly the answer to the current Greek financial state.The Islands like to be seen as independant and so probably have an aversion to sending taxes of any sort to Athens-- don`t blame `em really.

 

[jimbaerselman]

I believe that the first of these is a tax that is not applied if you have an annual contract with a marina, in which case you have already paid it. I have never been in a position to try this one.

Yes. One charge is a port entry fee, a one off, however long you stay. The other is a fee for each day (from midnight to midnight) you are using port facilities. There is a third sum, 88c, which is 'paperwork' charge. I believe this is the one which has to be paid into the local treasury office, rather than the port police. Occasionally a trek of a few miles!

 

[Melody]

Charging 4 Euros for a boat that is probably spending 100-150 euros in the tavernas each night does seem a bit churlish.

I don't see what relevance the fact that you are paying a private taverna owner has. The ports are run by a municipal Port Authority and it is them who get the small amount of money from each yacht which goes towards upkeep of the port, wages etc.

Your argument is like saying you won't pay to park your car in a town carpark because you have just bought an expensive leather jacket in the shop up the road.

 

[Tranona]

It is not as simple as that. If port fees are collected by the Port Police, they do not stay in the local community. Many local communities and individual tavernas provide their own facilities even within ports that have police offices - Fiskardo would be an example. They do this to encourage people to moor up and use their services.

It is the inconsitency, lack of transparency and variable application of complex rules that irritates most. In the past local communities have done a lot to encourage visitors which is why the area is so attractive. The danger is that greed will result in the area going like Croatia and become too expensive, or rather poor value because mooring fees get out of proportion to the facilities offered.

 

[Sybaris]

Summary

The point I wanted to make in my heavily sarcastic first message was among other things just what Melody pointed out.

For some reason many cruisers seem think that they shouldn't have to pay a port fee for one reason or another. A few reasons I have heard are; "we spend enough money in town anyway" (correctly commented by Melody), "the cruising log fee is 'illegal' according to EU rules" (often quoted by French cruisers), "it 'might' get out of hand and become like Croatia" (yes interesting reason 'what if'), and now the latest "the money is just sent to Athens anyway" (wow yes that is for sure a good reason to decide not to pay).

Whatever reasons are quoted, it is not up to us to decide if we feel we should have to pay or not, and to even suggest that greed has anything to do with the very reasonable fees or that they are likely to spin out of control and become like Croatia is really pushing it way too far.

Tranona also brings up the often quoted complaint of inconsistency, lack of transparency (huh?), and complex rules. To me it seems as if there might be a difference in how the Port Police works in the Ionian versus the Cyclades/Dodecanese. In the latter I don't think you could argue any of those three statements, and in the former I have no experience.

The inconsistency is mostly created by ourselves because according to the regulation (as I understand it) each yacht is responsible to go to the local Port Police office and pay when staying in a harbour. The fact that the local Port Police doesn’t always come and ask us to pay is not an inconsistency as they shouldn't really have to do that anyway. Some take it further and complain that it is too far to walk, or that the PP are not interested in taking our money. Well I would sure have it that way rather than for example a smart cards that are swiped and loaded with pre-paid money or some such modern "fail proof" charging system.

Lack of transparency, well what can I say? I don't see that they would have anything to hide, and if you speak fluent Greek I am sure they would be willing to explain in most offices exactly how the system works (for them). I don't speak Greek but several offices have been very helpful to me and explained in English how they implement the charge.

I say "how they implement the charge" because there seem to be minor variations such as the rule I pointed out in my original message (counting the departure day), and others as found in this thread. To that my answer is "so what?", because the differences are minimal and I would put it down to being the way things work in Greece and just accept it.

I also fail to see that the rules are complex. Go to their office, show your papers, get a price, pay, and that is it. What is so complex about that?

If you are really true to yourself you will have to agree that it is mostly about cruisers trying to find reasons to evade the port fee. I know I do sometimes but I also know that I can't blame the Greek Port police or government for that.

Cheers,
Per

 

[Tranona]

Well, Per

Your long, involved "response" merely serves to confirm what I and others observe.

There is a lack of transparency, the system is complex and is inconsistently applied. Re-read what you have written and you will come to the same conclusion.

My experience is in the Ionian. Arguably the majority of yachts in a port are charter or flotilla boats which bring substantial economic benefit - often 6-8 people all spending 20 euros each in a taverna, every night. This trade has transformed the local economy. The minimal port fees (4 euros a night typically) that might be charged pale into insignificance compared with other income.

It is different for private cruisers living the "good life" where there are often only two to a boat and don't (or can't afford to) eat out every night.

I do not know why the French complain about the log. It is not illegal because it applies to ALL EU boats, including Greek so does not discriminate. The cost is little more than they would have to pay for one night in a marina in the South of France!

One of the problems with Greece is the difficulty they have in framing laws that reflect practice. It is not so long ago that you could not charter a yacht unless it had a Greek skipper. Having found ways round that the law then required all charter boats to be Greek owned which effectively killed the industry for a while and resulted in the closure of their major boatbuilders. Ways around this legislation were found as pragmatically there is a conflict between the desire to expand tourism activity and a bureacratic system that is essentially protectionist. There are many examples where the official line and practice are different, or the official line is unworkable. Greece is not alone in having these difficulties as even a casual reader of this forum will discover.

No doubt there will be more "difficulties" in the future as the government tries to tackle the political and economic problems facing the country. The tax on yachts (aimed at a particular section of Greek society) may well have an impact on visitors, which is perhaps why it does not seem to have been implemented yet We shall see!

 

[blueglass]

as with Tranona, my experience is entirely Ionian so far and exactly reflects that of Tranona. It IS without doubt inconsistent and confusing and its own complexity is possibly the reason why the PP to struggle to implement it in an even handed fashion. The charges are small and I disagree with your assumtion Sybaris, that the underlying problem is a reluctance to pay. I for one am only happy to pay the modest harbour fees. My objection, and that of others is the time wasting nonsense of tracking down largely disinterested PP who may (very rarely ) want to stamp you up, but mostly reward your efforts to comply, with a friendly but bored wave of the hand. I find it hard to believe that the rest of Greek waters is completely different and totally consistent, but if you say so....

 

[Chris_Robb]

This years Ionian experience

This was our first time in Greek waters for 15 years. It has not changed much, and at the end of July, I was surprised how uncrowded it was from what I was led to expect (now back home for August).

So this was what we paid.

Corfu Old Port - 1 week - nothing. However sent all round the town for .88 cents invoice to leave port. Dekpa was another laugh - paid then had to go back for refund when they said they had no forms.....

Platarius €3 per night + 3 for water and 3 for electrics - not collected by port Police but by very helpfull German girl.

Mourtos Sovota We got our dekpa here - took 20 minutes. BUT over night port fee was €19 Euros on 12 meters - which surprised me - water extra paid to water man (€5). As said else where you pay for 2 days if you stay overnight. Port Police said DO NOT get the dekpa stamped more than once a month.

Preveza No fees plus free water - a brilliant buzzing place.

Kalamos No fees

Ay Eufemia €16 - plus €5 for water and €5 for electric - we anchored - as less fraught with charter boats causing chaos in the cross wind! Port Police not involved, so presume municipally run.

Vathi Ithica We were asked to go to Port Police - we were warned that it would require us to book out in the morning before we left - (planned 7 am departure) so we didn't visit them. So don't know if any fee was applicable.

No where else charged us.

I agree with what others have said, I have no objection paying upto say €10 per night provided it is simple, but at €16 or more - I would prefer to anchor - which I prefer anyway if available as it was cooler, quieter and not so fraught as other boats screwed up their docking - it was more fun to watch than be a victim!

 

[blueglass]

[QUOTE
I agree with what others have said, I have no objection paying upto say €10 per night provided it is simple, but at €16 or more - I would prefer to anchor - which I prefer anyway if available as it was cooler, quieter and not so fraught as other boats screwed up their docking - it was more fun to watch than be a victim![/QUOTE]

yes anchoring is what the Ionian is all about, cooler, quieter and hassle free. We only seek out a harbour if we need water. Incidentally when in the "inland sea" area round Levkas I recommend Dimitri's Taverna on the east side of Vlicho Bay for free water and Wifi. If less than about 1.5 draught he has a little pontoon, otherwise anchor off a bit and use jerry cans as we do.
Please return his hospitality by at least buying a beer or two. Excellent food too.

 

[binch]

Harbour dues

I once challenged the practice of charging for two days when one arrives at 2030 and departs at o800 next day.
I was shown the Limenarcheon bible.
Fees are to be charged "for each day, and for part of a day"
The aristotelian logic of the man on the other side of the desk was that I had been there for two parts of days, from 2030 to 2400 on day one and from 0001 to 0800 on day two.
With logic like this, ti tha kanate? Pay up and enjoy Greece. Ti pote, it's not that much for God's sake.