Greek Cruising Tax

[Davy_S]

With regard to whom this tax is aimed at, -some of the Very large mobos- I would assume, you may be surprised at the little they contribute to the local shops/tavernas.
I watch them arrive with their Phillipino crew, the crew moor whilst they (owners or charterers) watch a six foot Plasma TV. The crew go to the supermarket to stock up and cook a meal ashore. Very rarely have I seen any of them in a Taverna. Ok, they pay mooring fees, but a lot are Italian, Brit and American flagged as well as Greek, so all maintenance costs will not be paid to Greeks. It is my opinion that private yachts, charter yachts and flottilas spend more cash in the bars and shops. I am sure anyone out here on a regular basis will have seen this happen.
As to the road tax, a small car is 94Euro, my friends 4+4 has just cost him 712 Euro, expensive! I went to the tax office to tax mine as it never arrived in the post, they had a big box in the corner, the locals were throwing their number plates into it and refusing to pay the increase.
I hope this tax fizzles out, at least most yachts will not be affected.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

There are "Good Things" and "Bad Things" in this world...

Most Med countries have a history of taxing visiting boats, and provided the tax is reasonable and fairly imposed, few will object.
I first cruised Greek waters in 1953, when there were no taxes on visiting boats, the Greek people being noted for xenofilia.
My first memory of a tax in Greece was just after the infanous colonels were chucked out and the result was a mass exodus for Turkey, largely because the proposed tax was excessive. It was this move that started off the yachting boom in Turkey. When we wintered in Bodrum in 1975, there were only four boats there: in 1977, there were twelve.
The exodus from Greece was a major factor in the late completion of Gouvia marina. We paid the tax and had a fine winter in the uncompleted Gouvia, running an electric cable across to Vassili and Victor's house close by. (Repeat the Greeks people are not xenophobic. That is why I want to go back again if my health improves. Even the health service in Greece is better than many assume.

In 1979 (I think) France taxed all foreign yachts very severely and the result was a mass exodus to Italy and Spain that left French marinas almost empty. We had paid French VAT on our yacht so we wintered in a super berth in Antibes for less than £300, so were financially ahead. . Sadly, never again such a deal.
Details of this proposed tax are unclear, but if it is over-bearing and/or unfair it will be changed. There are many Greek businesses serving the yachting community and they will start to sing about it soon if their incomes are threatened, because many of these are in the islands which are more dependent on yachting visitors than the metroopolitan area.
Do not knock the Greeks. Their politics are complex and Athens-oriented. Powerful people do not live on islands, but they pay attention in the end.
There is a Greek saying TI THA KANATE
Cheer up everyone

...but the above, despite how reasonable of tone and how much "favourite old uncle's wisdom" it appears to exude, doesn't convince me that allowing the Greek government to rob me is, in any way, a GOOD thing.

Chas

 

[Chris_Robb]

...but the above, despite how reasonable of tone and how much "favourite old uncle's wisdom" it appears to exude, doesn't convince me that allowing the Greek government to rob me is, in any way, a GOOD thing.

Chas

I am just hoping everyone is right about sailing boats up to 15 mtr being free. However the wonderful benefit of this will be the absence (hopefully) of the over 10 meter italian stink boats - who, when I was last in the Ionia 10 years ago, would run their generators all night along side you, and ignore your polite requests to stop.

 

[1bobt]

With regard to whom this tax is aimed at, -some of the Very large mobos- I would assume, you may be surprised at the little they contribute to the local shops/tavernas.
I watch them arrive with their Phillipino crew, the crew moor whilst they (owners or charterers) watch a six foot Plasma TV. The crew go to the supermarket to stock up and cook a meal ashore. Very rarely have I seen any of them in a Taverna. Ok, they pay mooring fees, but a lot are Italian, Brit and American flagged as well as Greek, so all maintenance costs will not be paid to Greeks. It is my opinion that private yachts, charter yachts and flottilas spend more cash in the bars and shops. I am sure anyone out here on a regular basis will have seen this happen.
As to the road tax, a small car is 94Euro, my friends 4+4 has just cost him 712 Euro, expensive! I went to the tax office to tax mine as it never arrived in the post, they had a big box in the corner, the locals were throwing their number plates into it and refusing to pay the increase.
I hope this tax fizzles out, at least most yachts will not be affected.

I agree with you ,most of the large superyachts stock up in Athens from their wholesalers. and do not spend anything ,or very little, in the ports that they visit .These yacht are the type that this tax is intended to hit IMO

Unlikly though

cheers bobt

 

[1bobt]

...but the above, despite how reasonable of tone and how much "favourite old uncle's wisdom" it appears to exude, doesn't convince me that allowing the Greek government to rob me is, in any way, a GOOD thing.

Chas

Chas
Would you please explain why you think that the Greek gov is robbing you
I cannot remember the size of your yacht and/or if this tax will effect you?

cheers bobt

 

[nimbusgb]

39 days in South of France, 39 in Greece, 39 in Turkey, a weeks work, laid up at home for winter. The big boats won't be paying as much as they think.

Next they'll decide that boats under 15m need taxing too.

 

[Sybaris]

All those posting here with motor boats over 10m and sailing boats over 15m hands up.

 

[1bobt]

All those posting here with motor boats over 10m and sailing boats over 15m hands up.

Exactly my point

cheers bobt

 

[blueglass]

As you say it will not affect the majority of us in Greece under 15m and it`s nice to know that the huge, ( generator running all night stinkpots) will be paying very large amounts for the priviledge!
?

How nice to hear that the camaraderie of those who go down to the sea in boats is not lost.

For the record I have an 11 metre motorboat which looks set to attract a tax of EUR 3,450 a year - considerably more than my annual mooring in Gouvia marina. It also seems back dateable so I would be liable for 2 doses of this.
For the record, the boat is not a stinkpot, gin palace or superyacht, nor am I a rich man with money to burn. Oh and also I don't have a generator running in a harbour at all, never mind all night. What it means for me is that I will have to leave Greece which is a place I like very much because there is no way I can afford to pay this. That's my hard luck and I dont particularly crave sympathy but at the same time it does stick in my throat to hear people like you gloating over my misfortune. We are all fellow boaters and this kind of crass comment just displays a childish mentality shared by those who run their keys down the paintwork of cars which are bigger than theirs. Grow up.

 

[djk]

We've been in the Med for 7 years now currently out of the water in Greece and moving back to Gouvia in the Spring. If we moved every time we read/heard a rumour about a new tax on yachts God knows where we'd be! Lets see what happens?

 

[ccscott49]

All those posting here with motor boats over 10m and sailing boats over 15m hands up.

Me, hands up! My boat is a 17.4 meters motor sailer, so not sure what would happen, but I suppose with two masts and sails I could convince them its a sailing boat. But it still makes it too expensive to come to Greece which is a great pity, after having visited Corfu this winter and loved the area, plus I worked extensively in the northern aegean offshore. I'm disappointed I will now have to change my plans, great pity.

 

[ccscott49]

Thanks chas
He`s just a spoilt child who has had his own way. Big bad oil man, Who has forgoten that I run a wirelining co offshore for twenty years.
I got to the top he is still on the bottom.

cheers bobt

Oh please do be quiet!
I havent forgotten you ran a wireline company, never knew in the first place! "I got to the top" You silly old man.

 

[1bobt]

Oh please do be quiet!
I havent forgotten you ran a wireline company, never knew in the first place! "I got to the top" You silly old man.

This silly old man is younger than you and not working yet ,you are still doing 12 on 12 off for 28 days, now who`s the silly fuc-er working at 60 to pay for a rotting old boat

If I needed your opinion I would have beaten it out of you

 

[ccscott49]

This silly old man is younger than you and not working yet you are still doing 12 on 12 off for 28 days, now who`s the silly fuc-er working at 60 to pay for a rotting old boat

If I needed your opinion I would have beaten it out of you

You would have beaten it out of me!!?? "working to pay for a rotting old boat" ??? hahaha. Like I said, you silly old man.

 

[grumpygit]

Ayup you guys, I don't know which thread to quote, so many up for a challenge so I'm not going to single one out...I think you all have points collectively. I am not Greek, I am a liveaboard and below is my view only of how I see it from looking in.....but apologies if it seems like a rant...I

The Greek government is looking for income and are going about it through tax rather than charges. The harbours belong to the Greeks so maybe the tax is wrong and charges would be more fitting and could levy all sizes and spread it out. Even the charter fleets could pay towards the coffers (and definitely those stinkies), also for us being visitors here enjoying their cruising grounds,
But lets get this straight, they are not after the liveraboards that are from where ever but looking mostly for the Greeks that evade paying tax on their luxury Mobo's and SY's that have mostly been bought with un taxed money, i.e. black money, and that they evade paying tax within their businesses also. The Greeks are bloody corrupt within their tax system and it is a national sport not to pay taxes and because of this it's going to bite them up their ass.
Believe it or not this is one of the richest countries in the EC per capita, the rich here are stinking with it......
All this is a natural culture in Greece for those with money to evade tax including the politicians and unless you know and understand the Greek mentality you will not grasp what it will take to re-adjust their ways, the possibilities are slim....

We have paid €90's (including electric and water) per night for ours in Croatian Marina's that are state owned, all be it on very nice complexes with showers, W.C. shops, restaurants and all this on top of our cruising tax of €200ish p.a.
O.k. so we come to Greece which was our intention and go on a harbour wall and pay €7's a night PLUS water and electric but no dedicated showers or w.c. So where do you want to be......?
€3000's for 30 days in Croatia or €210's plus water and electric with the addition of lets say €60's tops, which is optional. Both these countries offer anchourages that are more or less free in most cases.
So really Greece could generate a lot more by putting on a fair levy for mooring and berthing and go for the big boys in a direct way instead of hiding behind the general boating fraternity.

It wouldn't be so bad if the taxes went to the places they should instead of lining politicians and associates pockets..........but hayho this is the World over and we all have a voice.

There will and has got to be tax increaces here in Greece, also through much of the EC and it will hurt many. I don't think one can run somewhere else, one state will do it and the others will follow....The frying pan will do for now and bugger the fire,,,,!

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[blueglass]

[QUOTE Even the charter fleets could pay towards the coffers (and definitely those stinkies), also for us being visitors here enjoying
-[/QUOTE]

what is it with you people and stinkie hate. Why do you think I with my 11 meter boat deserve to be ripped off while you very special godlike owners of sub 15 metre yachts cluck and gloat over your exemption.

 

[Appleyard]

Ayup you guys, I don't know which thread to quote, so many up for a challenge so I'm not going to single one out...I think you all have points collectively. I am not Greek, I am a liveaboard and below is my view only of how I see it from looking in.....but apologies if it seems like a rant...I

The Greek government is looking for income and are going about it through tax rather than charges. The harbours belong to the Greeks so maybe the tax is wrong and charges would be more fitting and could levy all sizes and spread it out. Even the charter fleets could pay towards the coffers (and definitely those stinkies), also for us being visitors here enjoying their cruising grounds,
But lets get this straight, they are not after the liveraboards that are from where ever but looking mostly for the Greeks that evade paying tax on their luxury Mobo's and SY's that have mostly been bought with un taxed money, i.e. black money, and that they evade paying tax within their businesses also. The Greeks are bloody corrupt within their tax system and it is a national sport not to pay taxes and because of this it's going to bite them up their ass.
Believe it or not this is one of the richest countries in the EC per capita, the rich here are stinking with it......
All this is a natural culture in Greece for those with money to evade tax including the politicians and unless you know and understand the Greek mentality you will not grasp what it will take to re-adjust their ways, the possibilities are slim....

We have paid €90's (including electric and water) per night for ours in Croatian Marina's that are state owned, all be it on very nice complexes with showers, W.C. shops, restaurants and all this on top of our cruising tax of €200ish p.a.
O.k. so we come to Greece which was our intention and go on a harbour wall and pay €7's a night PLUS water and electric but no dedicated showers or w.c. So where do you want to be......?
€3000's for 30 days in Croatia or €210's plus water and electric with the addition of lets say €60's tops, which is optional. Both these countries offer anchourages that are more or less free in most cases.
So really Greece could generate a lot more by putting on a fair levy for mooring and berthing and go for the big boys in a direct way instead of hiding behind the general boating fraternity.

It wouldn't be so bad if the taxes went to the places they should instead of lining politicians and associates pockets..........but hayho this is the World over and we all have a voice.

There will and has got to be tax increaces here in Greece, also through much of the EC and it will hurt many. I don't think one can run somewhere else, one state will do it and the others will follow....The frying pan will do for now and bugger the fire,,,,!

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Well put & a good summary of the situation.
If we are in any doubt about taxes coming to get us ,today's news from Darling should give a hint of what's to come. Loosen up guys & go with the flow.
We should continue to circulate any information we have re where & what do do & avoid.

 

[Ariadne]

Well you could always cruise outside of the EU, and still be in the Med'. So there is an option if you don't want pay this tax, and still have good cruising and cheap fuel, not much alcohol in some of these countries.

Another thing I want to ask is, is this the 15€ tax I paid when I entered the country. If not then what was the 15€ I gave to the tax office for? They wouldn't issue the permit unless I had paid it.

 

[jimbaerselman]

When news of this tax first arose this summer, I was advised (perhaps incorrectly) that the payments arose only on the metres additional to 10m (mobo) and 15m (sail). In other words, a 17.4m sail boat would pay 3m x €200 = €600 (assuming only whole metre excesses are charged).

Throughout this thread the assumption (and translations) have been that the 14.9m sail boat pays virtually nothing, whereas the 15.1m boat pays 16m x €200 = €3,200 (or €3,600 for 17.4m)

This type of sharp discontinuity in taxation is unlikely. Those who design taxation systems aren't fools, and realise that discontinuities force people to game the system. (Cue tirade of comments from some bigots that all Greeks are fools . . .)

I'd be very grateful if our Greek mates on this forum, who have aready been so helpful, could clarify this point.

 

[grumpygit]

[QUOTE Even the charter fleets could pay towards the coffers (and definitely those stinkies), also for us being visitors here enjoying
-

what is it with you people and stinkie hate. Why do you think I with my 11 meter boat deserve to be ripped off while you very special godlike owners of sub 15 metre yachts cluck and gloat over your exemption.[/QUOTE]

"What is it with you people with power boats" should be a reasonable reply if it wasn't so petty. So you have a MoBo and it's over 10m plus 2 damn great engines, your boat, your choice.
If they put a tax on engine/s by a scale to horse power you'll be even more aggrieved about us yachties, our boat our choice. I don't hear any clucking.....! You also assume I'm sub 15 metres...

The tax the Greeks are looking at is not a personal tax against you, so whatever it's going to be will be, we all will just have to take it on the chin. Somewhere down the line we are all going to have to pay more and I dare say when it does happen some will go and some will stay.

Duties will be going up, fuel, tobacco, alcohol.... There is a 99% chance VAT/IVA will also increase and as far as I can make out, this is being pushed by Brussels not Greece.

Is there anywhere to go? I suppose you could move to Italy (where I have just left) with you been a fan, or buy a submarine and then no one will see you to charge you.

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