Greece marina as residential address

[nickonthebaltic]

Being married to an EU national, am looking at registering as resident in Greece (to avoid Schengen 90/180 days) and using a marina (annual berth) as residential address.

Does anyone have a) experience of the feasibility of this and b) recommendations for a value-for-money marina?

Thanks

Nicholas

 

[AndrewB]

I have done this successfully using Gouvia Marina, Corfu, as my address, and proving I have had my boat based there for a number of years. How easy it is may well depend on where you are. My impression has been that the Immigration Office on Corfu are more relaxed about issuing resident permits than many other places, at least to the British. However, Gouvia is not a cheap marina.

 

[dunedin]

Being married to an EU national, am looking at registering as resident in Greece (to avoid Schengen 90/180 days) and using a marina (annual berth) as residential address.

Does anyone have a) experience of the feasibility of this and b) recommendations for a value-for-money marina?

Thanks

Nicholas

Surely if married to an EU National the Schengen limits are not an issue for you, if with her

 

[westernman]

Being married to an EU national, am looking at registering as resident in Greece (to avoid Schengen 90/180 days) and using a marina (annual berth) as residential address.

Does anyone have a) experience of the feasibility of this and b) recommendations for a value-for-money marina?

Thanks

Nicholas

Presumably as a permanent resident you would then be subject to Greek income tax etc.
Are you sure you want that?

 

[nickonthebaltic]

Surely if married to an EU National the Schengen limits are not an issue for you, if with her

That is indeed my understanding, but problems may arise when crossing borders (Italy, France) and officials want to see documentary evidence?

 

[nickonthebaltic]

Presumably as a permanent resident you would then be subject to Greek income tax etc.
Are you sure you want that?

Not planning to stay more than 180 days, so tax residence shouldn't become an issue (tell me if I'm wrong!)

 

[nickonthebaltic]

I have done this successfully using Gouvia Marina, Corfu, as my address, and proving I have had my boat based there for a number of years. How easy it is may well depend on where you are. My impression has been that the Immigration Office on Corfu are more relaxed about issuing resident permits than many other places, at least to the British. However, Gouvia is not a cheap marina.

Thanks, good to hear. How much was having been there for some years a factor?

 

[st599]

Surely if married to an EU National the Schengen limits are not an issue for you, if with her

Is that not only valid if the EU national is present or you can prove you're traveling to meet them.

 

[AndrewB]

Thanks, good to hear. How much was having been there for some years a factor?

Not certain, but I'm fairly sure it helped. Previously, when we were still in the EU, I had registered under the 90-day rule for EU citizens.

Regarding an earlier response you made, as a resident, you must commit to being in Greece for at least 183 days per year. There are various types of residency: I'm guessing that like me you will want a 5-year "Financially Independent Person Permit". It's essential that you check the implications of this.

The rules keep changing so don't take the following as gospel. You have to prove you have a certain level of income, I think it's €3,500 per month. You must register your tax status and will be liable for income tax - if you have a UK pension, then 7% of that. They don't allow dual residency, so you are expected to give up UK residence, and with it your entitlement to the NHS. You must have a Greek bank account. You must obtain a Greek driving license and register your car in Greece).

But in practice I've skated fairly lightly over some of these requirements.

 

[dunedin]

Is that not only valid if the EU national is present or you can prove you're traveling to meet them.

That’s why I said “if with her”. But presumably will be together most of the time - and can use 90/180 for other time?

 

[nickonthebaltic]

Surely if married to an EU National the Schengen limits are not an issue for you, if with her

I've tried and failed to find online any confirmation of this from a definitive (i.e. government) source. How would this be registered? I land at Athens airport and go through immigration/passport control. My wife may be in the line behind me, but they register my arrival as an individual - do I have to tell them "next up is my EU citizen wife"? I don't want to assume it's OK then find out at the Italian border that it's not.

 

[nickonthebaltic]

Not certain, but I'm fairly sure it helped. Previously, when we were still in the EU, I had registered under the 90-day rule for EU citizens.

Regarding an earlier response you made, as a resident, you must commit to being in Greece for at least 183 days per year. There are various types of residency: I'm guessing that like me you will want a 5-year "Financially Independent Person Permit". It's essential that you check the implications of this.

The rules keep changing so don't take the following as gospel. You have to prove you have a certain level of income, I think it's €3,500 per month. You must register your tax status and will be liable for income tax - if you have a UK pension, then 7% of that. They don't allow dual residency, so you are expected to give up UK residence, and with it your entitlement to the NHS. You must have a Greek bank account. You must obtain a Greek driving license and register your car in Greece).

But in practice I've skated fairly lightly over some of these requirements.

Thanks for that answer, because that's not at all what I had thought. I am resident and tax-resident in Poland and want to keep it that way. I'd thought if I was going to stay longer in Greece it was just a question of having an address and registering my stay, but clearly now not so.

It might be simpler to learn Polish and get a Polish passport

 

[dunedin]

I've tried and failed to find online any confirmation of this from a definitive (i.e. government) source. How would this be registered? I land at Athens airport and go through immigration/passport control. My wife may be in the line behind me, but they register my arrival as an individual - do I have to tell them "next up is my EU citizen wife"? I don't want to assume it's OK then find out at the Italian border that it's not.

Perhaps it might be worth you joining the Cruising Association as they are very familiar with rules on EU Schengen, and the sometimes idiosyncratic approaches in Greece.

 

[nickonthebaltic]

Perhaps it might be worth you joining the Cruising Association as they are very familiar with rules on EU Schengen, and the sometimes idiosyncratic approaches in Greece.

Indeed, I should have tried that first as I am a member.

Their advice confirms that the 90/180 rule doesn't apply when travelling with SWMBO, and also that acquiring residence is possible but may cause other problems.

Still not sure how it works in practice but I guess when I get to Greece and visit the port police all will become clear.

Thanks to all.

 

[dunedin]

Indeed, I should have tried that first as I am a member.

Their advice confirms that the 90/180 rule doesn't apply when travelling with SWMBO, and also that acquiring residence is possible but may cause other problems.

Still not sure how it works in practice but I guess when I get to Greece and visit the port police all will become clear.

Thanks to all.

Try posting a question on the CA MedNet forum re the practicalities. Lots on there using this approach..

 

[AndrewB]

Still not sure how it works in practice but I guess when I get to Greece and visit the port police all will become clear.

From my experience, do NOT rely on the opinion of Port Police. For them to even give one would be suspect. If you want to discuss or claim residency rights then you must talk to Immigration, more formally the "Aliens Department of the Hellenic Police", who may not be immediately available at the point of entry. (In Corfu, for example, it's at the police headquarters in the middle of the town. No appointment necessary).

There is, or was, another type of residency that you might look into if your EU partner has been living in Greece for a while: a "Family Reunification Residence Permit". But it's mainly for those marrying Greek citizens.

 

[Graham376]

I've tried and failed to find online any confirmation of this from a definitive (i.e. government) source. How would this be registered? I land at Athens airport and go through immigration/passport control. My wife may be in the line behind me, but they register my arrival as an individual - do I have to tell them "next up is my EU citizen wife"? I don't want to assume it's OK then find out at the Italian border that it's not.

Europe Direct will answer any of your questions but each country seems to have their own interpretation of EU regulations. Reply sent to me below may answer your question. At passport control, we go through together.

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

As your spouse is a Portuguese citizen, he/she will continue to benefit from the rights set out in the Free Movement Directive when travelling, after the end of the transition period, to EU Member States other than that of which he/she is a national.

The Free Movement Directive applies not only to EU citizens who move to or reside in a host Member State but also to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.

You will thus derive a right of entry and residence from your spouse when accompanying or joining him/her in the territories of EU Member States of which he/she is not a national.

However, as mentioned above, Member States may, where the EU citizen exercises the right to move and reside freely in its territory, require the family member who is a non-EU national to have an entry visa (Article 5(2)).

Regulation (EU) 2018/1806 listing the countries whose nationals must be in possession of visas when crossing the external borders and those whose nationals are exempt from that requirement determines which non-EU nationals need a visa when travelling to EU Member States, except for Ireland. Annex I to the Regulation lists those non-EU nationals who are required to be in possession of a visa when crossing the external border of the Member States. Annex II to the Regulation lists those non-EU nationals who are exempt from the requirement to be in possession of a visa when crossing the external borders of the Member States for stays of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period.

The text of the Regulation and its Annexes is available at the following website: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1571825109562 HYPERLINK "https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1571825109562&uri=CELEX:32018R1806"& HYPERLINK "https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1571825109562&uri=CELEX:32018R1806"uri=CELEX:32018R1806

Regulation (EU) 2018/1806 has been amended to exempt UK nationals intending to visit the EU from the visa requirement for stays of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period.

The above means that you will be able to travel visa free in your own right for a maximum of 90 days in any 180-day period in the EU (except for Portugal where your stay is not limited since you hold residence there).

It also means that you will be exempted from the entry visa requirement when accompanying or joining your spouse to visit the EU, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period (Article 6(2) of the Free Movement Directive).

When you are travelling alone to other EU countries with the purpose to join your spouse , you would derive your right to entry from your spouse, as non-EU national spouse of an EU mobile citizen. You will not have to wait 90 days after already having spent there 90 days.

In order to verify whether you have a derived right of entry and residence, the host Member State may only require you to present a valid passport, a proof of family ties with your spouse (i.e. your marriage certificate) and proof that you, as the non-EU national spouse of a mobile EU citizen, are (or will be) joining your EU citizen spouse who is exercising free movement rights in a host Member State.

Please note that, regarding periods of residence that exceed three months in any host Member State, your spouse will need to have sufficient resources for you and himself/herself not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during the period of your residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State (Article 7(1) Free Movement Directive), unless he/she works or is self-employed in the host Member State.