Greece Golden visa, suitable as schengan area access?

[blampied]

We spent almost 4 years living on a boat in the Med, but needed to return with the boat to UK waters for family reasons, so weren’t in the EU for the Brexit period. It looks like we can’t claim EU schengan residency.
We want to return to living on a boat in the Mediterranean and are looking for ways to achieve this.

The Greece Golden Visa is looking like a possible option (cheaper than both Portugal and Spain, no minimum stay requirements and looks like no tax implications?) it will be a PITA to purchase of property €250k (just over £200k) especially as we’d have no intention of living in it, don’t need property we live on the boat, but there aren’t many other options.

If I decided to follow this route, am I missing any pitfalls?
Will this visa enable us to live 24/7/360 on a boat travelling around the Med

 

[nortada]

An interesting thread and I have no doubt you will get loads of responses.

Am I right in understanding you propose getting a so called ‘golden visa’ in one of the countries you identified (preferably Greece) that would give you unlimited stay in that country? In other words residency in that country?

I wasn’t aware this visa would give you unlimited time in other states in the Schengen area, where, I thought your stay would still be limited to 90 days total in 180 days in the rest of the Schengen area.

Additionally, I believe, to qualify for a ‘golden visa’, you had to buy property of a minimum value?

Looking forward to somebody with more knowledge than me coming along with some definitive answers.

 

[BurnitBlue]

This is one of those visas that do give total freedom of movement in ALL schengen states. For all familly members not just the owner. I examined this because I already own a house in Sweden for more than 400,000 Euro. I actually thought that I may be given a hassle free Golden Visa. Doesn't work for two reasons. Not all member states offer Golden Visas. Also the full amount must be brought into the country. Not just saved up pocket change brought in thirty years ago which appreciated to a legitimate figure because of propert booms. If you qualify, it is a good option which is instant BUT the year running cost of property taxes etc can add up.

 

[AndersG]

It gives you unlimited stay in Greece but 90/180 in rest of Schengen. None of the long stay visas gives you any additional rights in the rest of Schengen except for right to enter.

 

[st599]

It's also time limited, you have to keep investing or become a citizen at the end of the scheme.

 

[nortada]

It gives you unlimited stay in Greece but 90/180 in rest of Schengen. None of the long stay visas gives you any additional rights in the rest of Schengen except for right to enter.

Didn’t appreciate that Brits had to have a visa to enter the Schengen area.

 

[AndersG]

Didn’t appreciate that Brits had to have a visa to enter the Schengen area.

Did not say a visa was a requirement but non Schengen residents can be asked to provide proof of money, proof of travel insurance and a ticket out. Probably not asked for vety often but they can.

 

[Kelpie]

It looks like we can’t claim EU schengan residency.

That was never an option anyway.

 

[shan]

We spent almost 4 years living on a boat in the Med, but needed to return with the boat to UK waters for family reasons, so weren’t in the EU for the Brexit period. It looks like we can’t claim EU schengan residency.
We want to return to living on a boat in the Mediterranean and are looking for ways to achieve this.

The Greece Golden Visa is looking like a possible option (cheaper than both Portugal and Spain, no minimum stay requirements and looks like no tax implications?) it will be a PITA to purchase of property €250k (just over £200k) especially as we’d have no intention of living in it, don’t need property we live on the boat, but there aren’t many other options.

If I decided to follow this route, am I missing any pitfalls?
Will this visa enable us to live 24/7/360 on a boat travelling around the Med

It will allow you unlimited time in Greece but the 90/180 day rule will still apply to the rest of the Schengen area. I'm afraid 'Citizenship' is the only way of avoiding the 90/180 rule.

Edited to add: apologies for the duplication - looks like others have already said this.

 

[blampied]

To me it is Still looking like an expensive but viable option.
If it is unlimited time in Greece but 90/180 days in rest of Europe.
With a residency permit for Greece would your passport get stamped
on entry into Greece or would Greece not stamp it at all, as your resident?

Even if passport is stamped on entry to Greece, you have unlimited time Greece and as there are no internal boarders in schengan there is no we’re else passport is likely to be checked, if and when passport is checked, in say Spain, who is to say how long you have been there the date stamp from Greece could not be used to calculate 90 days as your resident in country that stamped it, there would be nothing to say you didn’t just arrive from Greece on your boat yesterday? So Spain could only stamp passport for that day? exit eu get exit stamp on passport and return again via Greece.
or is that too simplistic?

 

[shan]

To me it is Still looking like an expensive but viable option.
If it is unlimited time in Greece but 90/180 days in rest of Europe.
With a residency permit for Greece would your passport get stamped
on entry into Greece or would Greece not stamp it at all, as your resident?

Even if passport is stamped on entry to Greece, you have unlimited time Greece and as there are no internal boarders in schengan there is no we’re else passport is likely to be checked, if and when passport is checked, in say Spain, who is to say how long you have been there the date stamp from Greece could not be used to calculate 90 days as your resident in country that stamped it, there would be nothing to say you didn’t just arrive from Greece on your boat yesterday? So Spain could only stamp passport for that day? exit eu get exit stamp on passport and return again via Greece.
or is that too simplistic?

It is unlimited time in Greece but 90/180 in the rest of the Schengen. Your passport is not or should not be stamped on entry to Greece however, I would say that you need to be aware that you might suffer the unintended consequence of becoming tax resident in Greece. I don't know what the tax residency tripping hazards in Greece are but one of the tripping hazards in Portugal is spending more than 183 days in Portugal in a tax year - it's not the only proof of tax residency but it is certainly one of the worrying ones.... bearing this in mind, you might have an issue spending loads of time in the Schengen and then not being able to prove that you're not tax resident in Greece because of course you can't fall back on having outstayed your welcome in the Schengen without consequences.

 

[st599]

To me it is Still looking like an expensive but viable option.
If it is unlimited time in Greece but 90/180 days in rest of Europe.
With a residency permit for Greece would your passport get stamped
on entry into Greece or would Greece not stamp it at all, as your resident?

Even if passport is stamped on entry to Greece, you have unlimited time Greece and as there are no internal boarders in schengan there is no we’re else passport is likely to be checked, if and when passport is checked, in say Spain, who is to say how long you have been there the date stamp from Greece could not be used to calculate 90 days as your resident in country that stamped it, there would be nothing to say you didn’t just arrive from Greece on your boat yesterday? So Spain could only stamp passport for that day? exit eu get exit stamp on passport and return again via Greece.
or is that too simplistic?

As of next year, you'd still need an ETIAS for the other EU countries, and as part of the new rules, accommodation such as marinas will register you with the Schengen database.

You could avoid it, but the rules of Schengen state it's up to you to register your arrival, and a breach would make you an illegal immigrant.

 

[Graham376]

It will allow you unlimited time in Greece but the 90/180 day rule will still apply to the rest of the Schengen area. I'm afraid 'Citizenship' is the only way of avoiding the 90/180 rule.

Edited to add: apologies for the duplication - looks like others have already said this.

Travelling with spouse/partner who is a citizen allows unlimited travel.

 

[Graham376]

one of the tripping hazards in Portugal is spending more than 183 days in Portugal in a tax year

We've never found it a problem, my wife is a citizen and I have permanent residence, all tax paid in UK under dual tax arrangement.

 

[shan]

Travelling with spouse/partner who is a citizen allows unlimited travel.

It still relies on 'Citizenship' in one form or another.

 

[shan]

We've never found it a problem, my wife is a citizen and I have permanent residence, all tax paid in UK under dual tax arrangement.

That's why I said the 183 days is one of the tripping hazards. It's not the only measure of tax residency, as it is used in conjunction with other measures.

 

[Kelpie]

Travelling with spouse/partner who is a citizen allows unlimited travel.

This is a slight thread drift, but as someone who will imminently be depending on this, any first hand reports from those who have used it would be very reassuring. Apparently all I need is my own (Irish) passport and the marriage and birth certificates for my wife/son. But I wouldn't be surprised if I meet a less well informed border official at some point who doesn't accept this. Hopefully I'm just being overly cautious and it will all be fine!

 

[Graham376]

Kelpie, the following is the reply I received from Europe Direct, which could be printed out for showing to officials. It also contains some links which may be useful.

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

As your spouse is a Portuguese citizen, he/she will continue to benefit from the rights set out in the Free Movement Directive when travelling, after the end of the transition period, to EU Member States other than that of which he/she is a national.

The Free Movement Directive applies not only to EU citizens who move to or reside in a host Member State but also to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.

You will thus derive a right of entry and residence from your spouse when accompanying or joining him/her in the territories of EU Member States of which he/she is not a national.

However, as mentioned above, Member States may, where the EU citizen exercises the right to move and reside freely in its territory, require the family member who is a non-EU national to have an entry visa (Article 5(2)).

Regulation (EU) 2018/1806 listing the countries whose nationals must be in possession of visas when crossing the external borders and those whose nationals are exempt from that requirement determines which non-EU nationals need a visa when travelling to EU Member States, except for Ireland. Annex I to the Regulation lists those non-EU nationals who are required to be in possession of a visa when crossing the external border of the Member States. Annex II to the Regulation lists those non-EU nationals who are exempt from the requirement to be in possession of a visa when crossing the external borders of the Member States for stays of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period.

The text of the Regulation and its Annexes is available at the following website: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1571825109562 HYPERLINK "EUR-Lex - 32018R1806 - EN - EUR-Lex"& HYPERLINK "EUR-Lex - 32018R1806 - EN - EUR-Lex"uri=CELEX:32018R1806

Regulation (EU) 2018/1806 has been amended to exempt UK nationals intending to visit the EU from the visa requirement for stays of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period.

The above means that you will be able to travel visa free in your own right for a maximum of 90 days in any 180-day period in the EU (except for Portugal where your stay is not limited since you hold residence there).

It also means that you will be exempted from the entry visa requirement when accompanying or joining your spouse to visit the EU, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period (Article 6(2) of the Free Movement Directive).

When you are travelling alone to other EU countries with the purpose to join your spouse , you would derive your right to entry from your spouse, as non-EU national spouse of an EU mobile citizen. You will not have to wait 90 days after already having spent there 90 days.

In order to verify whether you have a derived right of entry and residence, the host Member State may only require you to present a valid passport, a proof of family ties with your spouse (i.e. your marriage certificate) and proof that you, as the non-EU national spouse of a mobile EU citizen, are (or will be) joining your EU citizen spouse who is exercising free movement rights in a host Member State.

Please note that, regarding periods of residence that exceed three months in any host Member State, your spouse will need to have sufficient resources for you and himself/herself not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during the period of your residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State (Article 7(1) Free Movement Directive), unless he/she works or is self-employed in the host Member State.

 

[BurnitBlue]

It gives you unlimited stay in Greece but 90/180 in rest of Schengen. None of the long stay visas gives you any additional rights in the rest of Schengen except for right to enter.

Agreed. Total freedom of movement in Schengen is limited by the 90/180 rule. It seems to me that the Golden visa is a way for wealthy people to get a fast track permanent residence who would not normally be considered elegible. For instance those who would not even be allowed to stay in the EU long enough to get permanent residence. Funny world.

 

[grumpygit]

In Greece on the Golden Visa scheme you have to become a full tax resident. If I remember correctly they were running a scheme offering a flat rate of 7% income tax but I don't know whether this is still on the books.
Another thought is that any change of government can change the tax laws.